Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Originally Posted by rockzmom

***It's not that we are stupid...***
This is why no one wants Mr. Snowden.

Yes, it is. You just demostrated evidence of it, thank you. So, you are saying Americans are justified in the attitude, 'everyone knows there's spying so it's okay or we can accept/tolerate it.' LOL! Well, that is a new perspective I haven't seen too often so congratulations. That's a stupid attitude. I never said Snowden is a hero. One can debate that but he tried to give details on how *pervasive' and serious it is with details. Instead of people just 'assuming' they're being spied on, he brought the subject into the public eye more than before. He sacrificed his safety and livelihood to 'tell people' and hopefully, wake them up. Unfortunately, he didn't realize how many stupid and oblivious people there are. Even when they're smacked on the head with the revelations, people not only overlook it but call him a 'traitor.' LOL! Unreal.
Edit: Also, Snowden showed that the American Government has violated the Constitution among other things and no one with a rational mind would consider his 'contract' allowing that.
Snowden is 'not being accepted' (as you put it) by other countries because they are in bed with the U.S. Government and the U.S. has intimidated other countries to not grant him the request.
I'm not surprised the mod liked your comment. It's typical of this site whenever the topic is politics.

Originally Posted by Eledhwen

В свою очередь у США не получилось надавить на Россию. А Россия сохранила лицо.

...А еще Сноуден не может покинуть Москву, так как документы, имеющиеся у него, недействительны.

Lenta.ru:

"А Россия сохранила лицо." How? Putin just illustrated he has no backbone. He is a spineless President. He could process the asylum request instead he excluded any possibility. Only some Latin American countries are standing up to the US making Putin look weak.

Let's try an example, 14
Let's say somebody stole $100 from you, claiming that this particular $100 wasn't earned by you legally (there is no 100% proof that it's true)
You know who he is and you try to get your $100 back from that person
That person goes to your neighbor and offers $50 from that stolen $100, so your neighbor would hide him

Other person (who has a grudge against you) encourages your neighbor to take those $50 and hide the thief

Should your neighbor hide the thief or not?

Прочти еще раз. Особенно первые два пункта.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

"А Россия сохранила лицо." How? Putin just illustrated he has no backbone. He is a spineless President. He could process the asylum request instead he excluded any possibility. Only some Latin American countries are standing up to the US making Putin look weak.

Because this guy is empty and useless. He doesn't know anything that can be of interest of the Russian secret service. That's why we don't need to process the asylum request. Putin doesn't want to play somebody else's game. And he's right, I guess.

Russian 14... you are the one who doesn't seem to understand that:

1. Anyone with a FaceBook account or using any sort of Android product has already given up on their privacy long ago. We sold our souls to the devils on those technologies and they know more about us than our own families do and ever will. "Here, want a great calendar App that will help organize your life and your families too?... Wonderful, now we know all of your doctors appointments, that little Suzi does tumbling, and little Jimmy plays the trombone, and you had your mammogram done last week and that two weeks from now you plan on divorcing your hubby and he doesn't know it yet."

2. Children today know from early school age that you in order to obtain any sort of account, be it a school based IT account or a job, you must sign a Computer and Internet Use Policy Form. Once you sign that form, your emails, web movement, anything electronic at work/school is no longer private. Every key stroke and document is recorded and stored and can be reviewed at anytime without your permission.

So, it is not a case where Mr. Snowden brought to light anything really new or different about what is already happening in our society. We are not oblivious to it. Maybe you just randomly click on TOS agreements or sign legal contacts and policies. Maybe it is you who has been oblivious to it all and that is why you are so upset over all of this?

Oh and Russian 14... I can write this post and have a passionate debate all without resorting to name calling and maybe that is part of the reason Lampada liked my post....hmmmm?

“Weak”, “hypocritical”, “spineless”, are all emotionally charged words that easily ignite people on the forum. Let’s try to avoid such “kitchen” lexica in a serious political discussion.)))

According to the constitution of Russian Federation, our president must act for the best interests of its people (not American or some other). Hence, I’m wondering what might be the benefits for common Russians in case Putin should decide to challenge the US Administration and host Snowden for good.Also,do we really need possible political, cultural, economical or whatever sanctions that may ensue, which is quite probable, granted how furious Obama and other high officials of his administration? And I really can’t see anything tangible and substantial that could counterbalance these looming repercussions. So, maybe, it’s better for Putin to let boisterous Latin American political chieftains play “external enemy” game to gain more popularity, and stay focused on internal problems instead, is it not?
-------
Sorry , Most Russians don’t really want to live in “Honduras” anymore.)))

Гондурас

I understand that Putin just can't play edgy leftist as some Latin American Presidents, he just plays in the higher league. But he could at least make a "good" face and let some local authorities comment the situation instead of him.

The guy uncovered unethical and unjust spying and surveillance on their own people probably breaking numerous laws (not to mention Constitutional). 1984, anyone?

OMG.... I can't believe this but there is a first time for everything! I am going to AGREE with 14Russian on this topic. That does not mean I agree with anything else you say, however! So let's not get into a discussion about Atlas Shrugged anytime soon )))

I have been following the Snowden story closely and I think America is humiliating itself by pursuing him so ravenously. We are acting exactly the way we accused the USSR of acting when their defectors came to the US for asylum back in the Cold War. Times have changed and now the US is behaving like the "evil empire" in my opinion. I have been called "unamerican" and a "traitor" for saying this, but I think it is time for Americans to face facts! Our military budget is larger than the combined military budgets of the next 16 most developed countries including Russia and China! Our economy is suffering under the taxburdens of supporting this military, and this vast surveillance array we have all in the name of some fake "war on terror." But people are raging against the unemployed, and the poor, and the elderly and disabled - complaining about welfare and the cost of education, rather than discuss this sacred cow! Why do we need such an inflated military? When was the last time the US fought a "moral" war? In my personal opinion, the last time we had just cause to go to war was when Hitler invaded Europe. Everything since then has been expansion of empire.

Another thing is that the media is focusing too much on Snowden personally, rather than discussing that SACRED COW referenced above. Even Obama said that the nation needs to have a discussion about surveillance, so where is that discussion? The media is distracting everyone with the Snowden story.

It is fascinating for me, but support for Snowden may be one thing that actually reaches across ALL party lines in the US. It is one of the few things I find myself agreeing about with right wingers, libertarians, greenies, socialists, and every other existing political party in our nation. The converse, of course, is also true, in that people from every part of the political spectrum are calling him a traitor, too.

As for Putin, I think he went out on a limb to offer asylum to Snowden, but I cannot blame him for attaching the condition of "no further anti-American activities." Relations between the US and Russia are worse than I have seen in 25 years, and Putin does not want to increase tensions further. Besides that, we have to contend with Syria. Is the US going to keep backing the rebels, even though we now know that the rebel movement was co-opted by Al-Nusra? I have no idea.

On the homefront, Americans have always known that we were being spied on, I think, but the extent of that spying - the sheer vastness of it - is difficult to comprehend. It is good to have confirmation. In my opinion, Snowden broke the law. But he broke the law for the sake of a higher principle.

Would be nice, if spies themselves published the fruits so that anyone could evaluate their work. Otherwise, it is unclear, what they are doing.
The same requirement I address to conjurers too.
If we want more openness.

BTW, Does anyone think, that projects like Facebook was created with primary goal to spy on people?

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

BTW, Does anyone think, that projects like Facebook was created with primary goal to spy on people?

Should it be mentioned that the Internet itself has evolved from the ARPAnet project, a military network designed to support the US defense facilities?

This song completely sums up the problems in America for me - if you can forgive the language.

Make a poll.

Snowden Seen as Whistle-Blower by Majority in New Poll - Bloomberg.

CERN or ?
http://home.web.cern.ch/about/birth-web.

Snowden: I never gave any information to Chinese or Russian governments l Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Excerpt from this article:

The extraordinary claim that China had drained the contents of Snowden's laptops first appeared in the New York Times in a June 24 article. The paper published the claim with no evidence and without any attribution to any identified sources.

In lieu of any evidence, the NYT circulated this obviously significant assertion by quoting what it called "two Western intelligence experts" who "worked for major government spy agencies". Those "experts" were not identified. The article then stated that these experts "said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong" (emphasis added).

So that's how this "China-drained-his-laptops" claim was created: by the New York Times citing two anonymous sources saying they "believed" this happened. From there, it predictably spread everywhere as truth.

Shortly thereafter, the New Yorker – under the headline "Why China Let Snowden Go" - told its readers: "His usefulness was almost exhausted. Intelligence experts cited by the Times believed that the Chinese government 'had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.'" It was then repeatedly cited to demonize Snowden in venues such as DC gossip sheets, right-wing outlets, and diaries at Democratic Party sites.

But there was never any evidence that this was true. The NYT decided to publish this incendiary claim in a news article based purely on rank speculation from two anonymous sources. Obviously, Snowden's denial is not dispositive and shouldn't be treated as such. But it is the only actual evidence on this question thus far.

Obama promised to protect whistleblowers and what a surprise, the reality is Obama has shown you yet another lie. Snowden fears going back to the USA since he feels he won't get a fair trial and worse outcomes.

Snowden case: Has Obama broken pledge to protect whistleblowers? - World - CBC News

RE: Putin topic related to this.... I am not asserting Putin has to suddenly adhere to some sort of 'human rights' principle but to just follow the process of the asylum request. But, he made excuses so he doesn't have to challenge the USA. He took the easy road so to speak. I never stated that these Latin American countries are 'innocent' freedom-loving entities either. Their decisions to consider the request is probably (if not entirely) political but at least they didn't cave. Even with the threats of the USA, they tried to maintain some sense of sovereignty and they are not as influential as Russia supposedly is. If Putin thinks he 'won't play that game,' that doesn't change anything. It just re-affirms my assertion that he is spineless. He picks his spots when he 'disagrees' with the U.S..

National Whistleblowers Center - Obama's Hardest Promise: Protecting Workers Who Blow The Whistle

Edward Snowden live web chat: Whistleblower slams Obama on broken promises over civil liberties | Mail Online

Glenn Greenwald: Remember When Obama Vowed to Protect Whistleblowers? | Alternet

Obama’s War on Whistleblowers

Obama's New "Zero-Tolerance" of Whistleblowers Betrays Promised Protection

Obama and the USA cannot be trusted. The lies and total reversals after promises and assurances mean you cannot trust the U.S. Government. The deceptions, the violations of the Constitution and the infringements on Americans mean they cannot be trusted and is further proof the USA is going down the slippery slope (and things are getting worse). This is NOT about acknowledging they are using Facebook info of some stupid kids posting pics and telling how their day went. Anyone who wants to overlook it and shrug their shoulders about this is an idiot. The U.S. Government relishes the population who have their heads in the sand or ignore what's going on, though. They love you!

Interesting new development...

Ъ-Online - Эдвард Сноуден встретился с российскими правозащитниками и попросил убежище в

"Бывший сотрудник ЦРУ Эдвард Сноуден, обвиняемый США в шпионаже, сегодня встретился с российскими правозащитниками. На встрече, прошедшей в аэропорту «Шереметьево», в транзитной зоне которого господин Сноуден находится с 23 июня, он попросил политического убежища в России и пообещал выполнить условия президента Владимира Путина, чтобы остаться в стране."

I think it is time for Edward Snowden to learn the Russian alphabet!

Snowden has 'no regrets' and plans to seek asylum in Russia - World - CBC News

Many of the comments posted are amusing but pitiful. It looks like a lot of people share the 'we all knew we were spied on' rhetoric as if that makes it any better. Stupid people....

My post above was a Russian article which said the same thing, 14Russian.

Comments I see on American political threads are quite volatile. People say things like "He's a traitor and he should be SHOT!" I tell them they sound like Nazis to me.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Snowden has 'no regrets' and plans to seek asylum in Russia - World - CBC News

Many of the comments posted are amusing but pitiful. It looks like a lot of people share the 'we all knew we were spied on' rhetoric as if that makes it any better. Stupid people....

How does admitting one more time that everyone's being spied on help stop anyone from spying on you? =))