Thread: Crimea joining the Russian Federation and its implications?

Дык, люди уже опытные. Один раз на те же грабли не наступают. Сработало со свитой Янука, но сейчас нужно фантазию включать. Потому, будем ждать десятый пакет санкций. Кстати, насчёт стрельбы в Симфе, кто там говорил, что крымчанам никогда ничего не грозило? Ну, посмотрим на реакцию "зелёных человечков"...

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Ну, посмотрим на реакцию "зелёных человечков"...

Ну реакция-то, может, и будет. Только на реакцию-то и провоцируют.

Там по перешейку, как я понял, не проскочишь. А как с "морской границей"? Там, мне кажется, сейчас слона провезти можно, не только снайпера.

I'm sorry but this whole thing confuses me immensely. What the hell has it to do with the US, run by people who desecrated the indigineous population of America in their pursuit of claiming land they had no right to for one thing. Secondly, let the people decide as all persons concerned have a point of view. Let it go to a vote. What do the people want, not the US, ignore them, they still have ghettos in the South despite all their bravado in the 1990's about aparteid, so tell them to clean up their own garden......

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Ну, посмотрим на реакцию "зелёных человечков"...

Troll mode on…
Снайперы такая удобная штука...

Ну во первых – снайпер всегда вражеский. Ну очевидно же.

Во вторых – хорошего снайпера не видно. Если снайпера видно – то просто это кто-то пытается промыть хомячкам мозги. Мы то знаем что снайпер – настоящий профессионал. Наемник естественно.

В третьих – результатам официальных расследований верить нельзя. Потому что во первых и во вторых. Но полученных из интернета данных достаточно для того чтобы узнать правду. Ну во первых же.

Мне иногда кажется что их и нет на самом деле. А есть только симулякр для деперсонификации убийств. Вроде людей кто то убил, а виноват абстрактный злой «некто». Всем все ясно. Все довольны.
Troll mode off…

Well, unfortunately, it is all very controversial.. You see, the Crimean referendum was boycotted by about 15% of the Crimean population (of which the dominant part were the Crimean Tatars loyal to the central power in Kiev). As a result, there's not a slim chance for the Crimean Tatar terrorirsm [supported by whom?] becoming a reality.. Besides, the US is the leader of NATO and guess who just missed their chance to deploy their troops closer to Russia.. Why won't they be upset? Also, Russia and the EU already almost got their peace with each other [and the stocks went up]. Both Russia and the EU are economic rivals of each other but also guess of whom?

Originally Posted by Homsa

Мне иногда кажется что их и нет на самом деле. А есть только симулякр для деперсонификации убийств. Вроде людей кто то убил, а виноват абстрактный злой «некто». Всем все ясно. Все довольны.

А если что-то с чем-то не клеится, то снайперов можно умножать. При таком раскладе, вообще непонятно, кто в кого стрелял и за что. Интерпретация выбирается произвольно исходя из личных преференций.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Интерпретация выбирается произвольно исходя из личных преференций.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

This has already been proven to be BS - the myth that Svoboda and company are 'nazis' - maybe faux nazis. Jewish leaders have been on record defending them. But, of course, you are selective with your sources like the rest of the neo-Soviet BS-ers.

I don't give a slightest fvck about "Jewish leaders" you mentioned and their opinion. I know that Svoboda IS nazis, and their nazism turned mainly towards Russians. I know it from my personal expirience.

Sorry could someone explain please, do the Russians or the Crimean people want to unite? Or is this just a governmental power struggle?

Originally Posted by Twonkybot

Sorry could someone explain please, do the Russians or the Crimean people want to unite? Or is this just a governmental power struggle?

Twonkybot, it seems you live in informational vacuum.
I hope you know (or don't?) that the referendum about consolidation is finished. Results of this referendum: attendance is 83.01%, 97.47% of the people of Crimea voted for the uniting. More information (Russian): Референдум о статусе Крыма (2014)
I know it's hard to believe that Russian people can do something different, unlike European propaganda has been portraying them for the last 500 years.

Originally Posted by Twonkybot

Sorry could someone explain please, do the Russians or the Crimean people want to unite? Or is this just a governmental power struggle?

I think it is all very complex. The Crimeans are about 60 per cent ethnic Russians, 15 percent Crimean Tatars, 20 percent Ukrainians and 5 percent other ethnic groups. The Crimean Tatars are the native peoples of Crimea, but the peninsula has a history of several hundred years being part of the Russian Empire. In 1944 the Tatars were deported en mass into the remote regions of Central Asia as a collective punishment by the Soviet regime which the Tatars strongly associate with Russians. Only in 1991 the Tatars were allowed to repatriate to Crimea which at that time became part of Ukraine. So, the Crimean Tatars do not want to become part of Russia because they strongly associate Russians with the oppression and the genocide. At the same time, the rest of the population are influenced by the two major driving forces: the economic (Russia is a way richer country than Ukraine) and cultural (the majority strongly associate themselves with Russian language and culture). At the same time, Crimea has a long history of their local interests being ignored by the central government in Kiev and the Crimean autonomy only exists on paper. So, part of Crimeans prefer being in Russia to being in Ukraine and the other part the other way around. Hope it clarifies..

Charlie Rose | charlierose.com

Tom Friedman and David Sanger of the New York Times discuss the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.



Интересно послушать. Взвешенный и честный анализ международной обстановки на сегодняшний день.

Originally Posted by diogen_

Today it’s all over. Crimea IS part of the Russian Federation from now on. All my foresights on this and other “Ukrainian” threads have come true so far.

Hereby, I solemnly but humbly declare myself The Great Oracle: Diogenes the Wisest or in Russian- Великий Оракул: Диоген Премудрый.

You predicted before New Years, in the Ukraine thread, that Ukraine would lose Crimea to Russia?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

I think it is all very complex. The Crimeans are about 60 per cent ethnic Russians, 15 percent Crimean Tatars, 20 percent Ukrainians and 5 percent other ethnic groups. The Crimean Tatars are the native peoples of Crimea, but the peninsula has a history of several hundred years being part of the Russian Empire. In 1944 the Tatars were deported en mass into the remote regions of Central Asia as a collective punishment by the Soviet regime which the Tatars strongly associate with Russians. Only in 1991 the Tatars were allowed to repatriate to Crimea which at that time became part of Ukraine. So, the Crimean Tatars do not want to become part of Russia because they strongly associate Russians with the oppression and the genocide. At the same time, the rest of the population are influenced by the two major driving forces: the economic (Russia is a way richer country than Ukraine) and cultural (the majority strongly associate themselves with Russian language and culture). At the same time, Crimea has a long history of their local interests being ignored by the central government in Kiev and the Crimean autonomy only exists on paper. So, part of Crimeans prefer being in Russia to being in Ukraine and the other part the other way around. Hope it clarifies..

Just one thing to add:

Until the late 18th century, Crimean Tatars maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. About 2 million slaves from Russia and Ukraine were sold over the period 1500–1700. Tatars were known for frequent, at some periods almost annual, devastating raids on the Slavic peoples to the north. In 1769 a last major Tatar raid, which took place during the Russo-Turkish War, saw the capture of 20,000 slaves.

Also, those raids included the killing of Orthodox Christians.
Crimea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What's being clarified for me in this crisis is how little concern the US has for Russia's needs and interests. If I had that little concern for my friends' interests, I wouldn't have any friends.
There will be a lot of difficulties for the Crimean people but they seem to be adjusting to the new situation.
Crimea becomes more Russian by the hour - The Washington Post

But imo, this is only the beginning. I predict there will be more annexations and/or referendums happening soon.

Gorbachev added that the referendum set an example for people in Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine, who also should decide their fate.

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-approves...074249071.html

I have been in a bit of a vacuum recently unfortunately due to having been in a car accident, so I also have alot of catching up to do!

It seems to me that most nations can point to a time in their history when they wronged others and there comes a time when people need to try and put that behind them rather than letting that rule every future decision.

Doesn't the result of the referendum speak for itself? Surely that is a democratic action and therefore uniting a democratic result.

I'm still confused why a country like the US, who has a rather brutal history itself and rarely democratically decide anything, have any right in speaking out against anything.

The true face of the EU:

Van Rompuy cancels Russia trip to meet Putin: diplomat — EUbusiness

In two words, European Council president Herman Van Rompuy wanted to visit Russia and get a first-hand information about Russian positions.
Now he cancels his visit, because (those bloody) "Russians made it (this mission) public." Transparency in such delicate matters can only do harm, no doubt.
Apparently nobody in EU really wants to hear anything that contradicts their official line. Great diplomatic efforts, Mr. Van Rompuy! Applause to EU!

Originally Posted by Ramil

The true face of the EU:

Van Rompuy cancels Russia trip to meet Putin: diplomat — EUbusiness

In two words, European Council president Herman Van Rompuy wanted to visit Russia and get a first-hand information about Russian positions.
Now he cancels his visit, because (those bloody) "Russians made it (this mission) public." Transparency in such delicate matters can only do harm, no doubt.
Apparently nobody in EU really wants to hear anything that contradicts their official line. Great diplomatic efforts, Mr. Van Rompuy! Applause to EU!

Given that my country is part of EU I would like to mention that EU countries do not have a common foreign policy or a common defence policy (i.e. the decisions should be taken unanimously).
And that guy, who presumably represents EU in reality represents just particular interests of particular countries (Germany not included).
Cyprus is against sanctions and respects the cultural, religion, historical and economical relationships with Russia, even if it is a divided country (with serious political problems), with the worst economical position in EU and of course 100% dependence on EU and IMF funds:

Кипр против санкций в отношении

Russia had the historical right to annex Krym.
Also based on the Realpolitik Russians of Ukraine (or of any other country of the region) cannot live in a counrtry that belongs to NATO. It doesn't make sense.
NATO should have been destroyed when the Warsaw Pact collapsed. The continuation of it's existence means that it stills consider Russia as a potential threat.
My opinion.

I think it is shame that the US and EU, and yes I will put the UK to some extent in that pot believe that they have some sort of right to meddle in other nations affairs. In my humble opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with us at all and is a matter for the Crimean people mainly.

Unfortunately the US have not been happy since the lack of support shown with regards to their intentions in the Syrian crisis which I am glad our government allowed to go to a vote even though the result was not what they wanted as they wanted to support the US. Gladly the people won.

Unfortunately anyone as you say who doesn't tow the US line mainly, as in my humble opinion again the EU are generally just minions to the US, becomes an enemy to be discredited.

I would like to say on behalf of all intelligent, thinking people in the UK, we are not so susceptable to the insidious nature of propaganda these days.

Originally Posted by Twonkybot

I would like to say on behalf of all intelligent, thinking people in the UK

How many of you are there?

Originally Posted by Twonkybot

, we are not so susceptable to the insidious nature of propaganda these days.

Well, finally

Originally Posted by Twonkybot

I'm still confused why a country like the US, who has a rather brutal history itself and rarely democratically decide anything, have any right in speaking out against anything.

Well my friend, you haven't watched enough BBC, or CNN, lately, obviously!
And you need to listen to what William Hague and Catherine Ashton have to say.
If the USA says it's right, then it's right, never mind precedence, history or common logic.
Pick up the Daily Telegraph, it will explain all......