Thread: An alternative view of the USA & some other countries

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Oh, man! Looks like Soviet brainwashing was baby talk in comparison to American one.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by capecoddah

You have a failed economy. Sorry, you got a fail.

By your definitions, but you are comparing apples with pears here.
They started of from a feudal state, much later than the USA, and their aim was to create something fair for everyone.
They didn't get their wealth exploiting the third world etc.
Plus if the USA is so great, what about the terrible murder rates, the black ghettos, white trash....

Originally Posted by Hanna

They started of from a feudal state, much later than the USA

The feudal Russia was much wealthier than the USA at the time.

Originally Posted by Hanna

and their aim was to create something fair for everyone.

No comments as they would be perceived as a pure trolling.

Originally Posted by Hanna

They didn't get their wealth exploiting the third world etc.

Exploiting, exploiting, exploiting ... Do you really think the biggest issue of the third world is being exploited by the US?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Plus if the USA is so great, what about the terrible murder rates, the black ghettos, white trash....

Ah, so let's compare apples with apples now. Do you feel like comparing the murder/poverty rates globally?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The Soviet brainwashing was a bit more skillful that's all.

Skillful? Oh, no! It was too primitive and straightforward and was really effective only along with extensive terror, which was over at 1953.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The truth is multi-faced, so all of us are brainwashed more or less.

The brainwashing is a technology to make a person to be completely unable to perform the critical analysis of certain ideas or statements or just words and words combinations.

When a brainwashed person hears something that is presumably questions an idea-focus, (s)he suffers an uncontrollable negative emotional reaction that makes a person temporarily unable to perform intellectual activity.

This is just disgusting and has nothing to do with faces of truth.

I believe that everything is possible without brainwashing effects. Even faith. Brainwashing phenomenon is an evil, which can be avoided completely.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Skillful? Oh, no! It was too primitive and straightforward and was really effective only along with extensive terror, which was over at 1953.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I don't think our grandparents were all stupid and cowards. I think the opposite would better reflect the reality. People were idealistic, progressive, strove to overthrow worn and torn stigmas etc. I think the communistic ideology is smart and cunning, not the primitive and straightforward.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

When a brainwashed person hears something

like the word "USA"

Originally Posted by it-ogo

(s)he suffers an uncontrollable negative emotional reaction

exactly. Even if you watch the reaction of Hanna some of the forum members here, you'd notice that. And that being said of the [relatively] open and intellectual members. Now, can you notice what kind of reaction the word "exploitation" causes in our Soviet minds?

Originally Posted by it-ogo

This is just disgusting and has nothing to do with faces of truth.

Not really. Do you strongly associate "black" with evil and "white" with good? Most people do. But, the KKK members, for example, wore white robes. Were they good or evil? Black or white? It's all relative, as usual.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I believe that everything is possible without brainwashing effects. Even faith. Brainwashing phenomenon is an evil, which can be avoided completely.

I don't think the brainwashing is evil. It's just a part of the culture.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I don't think our grandparents were all stupid and cowards. I think the opposite would better reflect the reality. People were idealistic, progressive, strove to overthrow worn and torn stigmas etc. I think the communistic ideology is smart and cunning, not the primitive and straightforward.

"Primitive and straightforward" was not about ideology. It was about brainwashing technology.

Of course there is nothing about "stupid and cowards". В тридцатые годы в СССР происходило что-то очень странное и уникальное. Какие-то очень глубокие и непонятные запредельные вещи. Современному человеку это представить невозможно, для него такое может быть только в измененном состоянии сознания: "вещества" и т.п. Существовала острая эйфорическая атмосфера какой-то немыслимой экзистенциальной свободы, в том числе и в лагерях, независимо от убеждений и судеб. До нас она доходит отражениями в тогдашних фильмах и книгах как прямо (Герман, Гайдар, Каверин...), так и косвенно (Булгаков, Ильф&Петров...) и даже через вторые руки (Искандер, "Стоянка человека", например.) Кстати, Михалков в первых "Утомленых солнцем" ухитрился ее воспроизвести. Обычные рациональные трактовки здесь не срабатывают. Я долго думал над этим и отчаялся подвести под какой-то шаблон.

Но сама технология, то есть последовательность действий властей, была достаточно простая.

like the word "USA" exactly. Even if you watch the reaction of Hanna some of the forum members here, you'd notice that. And that being said of the [relatively] open and intellectual members.

Yeah, you can say this is subjective and a problem of degree, not of quality. There are no exact proofs, still I feel a big difference between prejudice+templates and physiological rejection. It is very different. First is a controllable simplification tool of the intellect, second is an uncontrollable block for it.

Black or white? It's all relative, as usual.

Let us assume someone say you that black is white. What is your reaction? My reaction is: "oh, really? So, give the definition of black and white, let us see, maybe in some context it is really true". I can be skeptic but I can play around. The brainwashed in "black and white" guy (if such were) will fall into hysterics and start to abuse an interlocutor in a way he normally would find unacceptable himself.

I don't think the brainwashing is evil. It's just a part of the culture.

Everything is either a part of nature or a part of culture, still there are things we can get rid of. There are people invulnerable to that (I don't mean myself ) maybe there are even invulnerable cultures idunno.