Thread: About Cold War and more

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I'd like to know (if anyone here can tell) what the level of "nuclear war hysteria" among Soviet citizens was at the time (the 50s-60s). Were they as concerned as Americans? I can't remember hearing about anything as extreme as American "home-made" bomb shelters, and later, in the 80s the atmosphere was very much relaxed, despite occasional talk about WWIII or American nuclear threat. We studied what we should do during the nuclear strike at school, but no one took it very seriously. The possibility of actual nuclear war seemed very small.

Я помню только такие плакатики =)





Сомневаюсь, что у нас была такая же как в США паранойя. И, имхо, была огромная разница в подходе к пропаганде: грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских. Поэтому, невозможно представить в Советской Армии плакат "Убей Джона!", а плакаты "Убей Ивана!" на американских базах были.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Я помню только такие плакатики =)

Сомневаюсь, что у нас была такая же как в США паранойя. И, имхо, была огромная разница в подходе к пропаганде: грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских. Поэтому, невозможно представить в Советской Армии плакат "Убей Джона!", а плакаты "Убей Ивана!" на американских базах были.

Ага, нас учили, что простые американцы не против сбросить оковы капитализма, но вот правительство им не позволяет

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

I was growing up (70's-80's), waiting for nuclear strike every day, and often saw nightmares.

I'm sorry to hear that. I guess moods could be different in cities that had big military bases and thus were considered to be among possible targets...

I was growing approximately at the same time and I did not care about Americans at all - apart from the weird stage at 5 or 6 years old, when I forced my mom to pretend that she was Reagan a few times, and then tried to persuade her to dismantle nuclear weapon. *facepalm*.

Me and my friends were much more concerned with Germans, who had a "history" of killing Soviet civilians indiscriminately in most unpleasant ways (like burning them alive). I remember planning the best place to hide if they decide to attack again. American threat seemed insignificant in comparison.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Я помню только такие плакатики =)

[...]

Сомневаюсь, что у нас была такая же как в США паранойя. И, имхо, была огромная разница в подходе к пропаганде: грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских. Поэтому, невозможно представить в Советской Армии плакат "Убей Джона!", а плакаты "Убей Ивана!" на американских базах были.

I agree.

The last picture is hilarious (in the light of the previous joke). Is it a gravestone?
Actually that's the only tip I remember from these lessons: during a nuclear strike find a nearby ditch which is positioned along the direction of shock wave and lie down. For some reason it always caused laughing fits. )))

Originally Posted by BappaBa

грубо говоря, наши учили ненавидеть американскую угнетающую верхушку, а американцы учили ненавидеть вообще русских.

Well, how does that old song go again? Oh, yeah:

"Союз нерушимый республик свободных.
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь"

(I.e., While the угнетающая верхушка [oppressive elite leadership] of the Soviet Union was -- from the US point of view -- the major threat, it was them goddamn rooskies who built the USSR in the first place, as they brag about in their own anthem!)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Well, how does that old song go again? Oh, yeah:

"Союз нерушимый республик свободных.
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь"

(I.e., While the угнетающая верхушка [oppressive elite leadership] of the Soviet Union was -- from the US point of view -- the major threat, it was them goddamn rooskies who built the USSR in the first place, as they brag about in their own anthem!)

Советский Союз представлял собой угрозу американскому господству в мире, а не самой Америке. Разница в пропаганде очевидна.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Well, how does that old song go again? Oh, yeah:

"Союз нерушимый республик свободных.
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь"

(I.e., While the угнетающая верхушка [oppressive elite leadership] of the Soviet Union was -- from the US point of view -- the major threat, it was them goddamn rooskies who built the USSR in the first place, as they brag about in their own anthem!)

off: раз не затирают "goddamn rooskies", то и я позволю себе побесчинствовать. =)

Неужели пиндосы учили определять кто есть клятый москаль, а кто бедный хохол и бульбаш? =)



Что при СССР, что сейчас: "Наташа, заткнись! Выпьем водки!" =)

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Неужели пиндосы учили определять кто есть клятый москаль, а кто бедный хохол и бульбаш? =)

Who can tell Rooskies apart from Ukies? You people all look the same, just like Chinks and Japs and Gooks... of course, the problem may be that слишком много телевизора вредно глазам, и поэтому у нас пиндосов слабое зреное.

But seriously, cheers to BarraBa for responding with good humor on this complex topic. (And thanks for introducing me to the word бульбаш, which I had to look up.)

Of course, it wasn't my intention to defend prejudice (even in wartime) or to deny that there was hateful Russophobia in the US during the Cold War.

But the point I wished to make with my reference to "Великая Русь" in the Soviet anthem was that, если бы столица СССР была не Москвой, а Бишкеком, то Сильвестр Сталлон в "Rocky IV" дрался бы не с блондином-славянином, a с "чёрным" киргизом-тюрком. That is, the Russophobia was based on the actual fact that ethnic Russians had dominated the Soviet Union. (And Russia had, of course, been an imperial power even before the Soviet revolution.)

At the same time, however, I think that Hanna greatly exaggerated the historic reality when she wrote:

There are thousands of American TV shows from that era with "evil Russians" plotting something nasty against nice Americans.

There was definitely "Soviet-phobia", and sometimes the "Soviet-phobia" became simple "Russophobia", for the reason I explained above. But, in my opinion, the caricature of "evil Soviets" was much less widespread in American popular media than Hanna implies; for there's a lot more to US cinema than Rocky IV and Red Dawn!

I would argue, instead, that US pop-culture (i.e., films and TV) typically recognized at least three categories of "Soviet people":

1. The truly good and intelligent ones -- who, of course, were desperate to defect to the West!
2. Those who were good at heart, yet remained blindly loyal to the inherently bad Soviet system because they'd been "brainwashed".
3. The evil ones who fanatically believed in the All-Powerful Soviet State and were happy to kill anyone who got in their way.

Absent from this scheme, of course, are noble-hearted and rational Soviet citizens who saw their country as "flawed but fixable" (like the US in slave-owning days) who believed that the Soviet sphere was truly worth defending as a counterweight to the US, and who envisioned two peacefully competitive spheres of influence.

Actually, this type (good-hearted and without delusions about Soviet abuses of power) wasn't totally unrepresented -- especially in science fiction, one sometimes found good and wise Soviet scientists or even KGB agents who teamed up with good and wise Americans for the common benefit of humanity, and each side learns to admit the flaws/limits/evils of his own system, etc. However, this was relatively rare, and more often, the American heroes would have to rescue the "heroic pro-American Soviets" and/or the "good but naive and helpless Soviets" from the "evil Communist fanatics".

I don't think there was equivalent bad portraying of Americans on Soviet TV.

Of course not! Soviet TV fully captured both the negative side of America -- such as unemployed workers and oppressed Negroes being sprayed with fire hoses -- and the positive side -- such as billionaire industrialists with yachts, limousines, and private jets. Fair and balanced, just like FoxNews.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

That is, the "Russophobia" was based on the actual fact that ethnic Russians had dominated the Soviet Union. (And Russia had, of course, been an imperial power even before the Soviet revolution.)

Hmm.. I think it's a bit of a (Western?) stereotype. The only way Russians 100% dominated the Soviet Union was an obligatory knowledge of Russian, since it was a state language. Generally Russians did not have any special privileges based on their ethnicity, no they were sole leaders in republican governments, which consisted largely of locals.
I've heard a theory that one of the reasons of such a swift demise of the USSR was exactly that - too much of ethnic and territorial integrity was allowed, so the transition from a 'Soviet republic' to an independent state was relatively easy: Soviet republics retained their "ethnic" borders, their national languages (which were also mandatory subjects at schools from grade 2 to grade 10), etc.

I'd like to add that "Soviet Russia" was usually a foreign concept to native "Soviets", because very few of them saw the Soviet Union as Russia - "Russia" was almost exclusively associated with Russian Empire, i.e. country before 1917.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Last edited by Throbert McGee; Today at 07:43 PM. Reason: Edited to add: I had to write this post in two parts because my laptop crashed...

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