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Thread: Что происходит в Украине? События, новости.

  1. #121
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    И где оно, обещанное? Запасаемся попкорном?
    Да побузят и успокоятся.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  2. #122
    Почтенный гражданин diogen_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    Да побузят и успокоятся.
    Да прямо так и успокоятся)). Блажен, кто верует)).

    После референдума Крым станет субъектом международного права и при необходимости прекратит “по сигналу свыше” договорные отношения с Киевом. А пока останется территорией Украины, подчиняющейся законно избранному президенту Януковичу. МВФ вряд ли даст кредит самопровозглашенному правительству, не осуществляющему полный контроль над собственной территорией, в стране, где вполне вероятно ведение боевых действий. И придется Обаме изобретать велосипед способы, как изыскать 30-40 млрд. долларов, которые в дальнейшем вполне возможно никто никогда не вернет. Ведь в случае поражения майдана его долги по всем стандартам будут признаны нелегитимными. Игра называется “Украинская рулетка”, а ставки принимаются на желтое или синее))) Шансы на успех - фифти-фифти.

  3. #123
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    А между тем, в замке у Шефа..

    Quote Originally Posted by www.bbc.co.uk/russian/international/2014/02/140227_crimea_parliament.shtml

    Парламент Крыма назначил референдум о расширении полномочий автономии на 25 мая.

    Между тем Центральная избирательная комиссия Украины заявила, что
    юридической базы для проведения референдума в Крыму нет, сообщил в
    интервью агентству УНИАН член Центральной избирательной комиссии Юрий
    Донченко.

  4. #124
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    До мая много времени ещё. К тому же, насколько я понимаю, на референдуме вопрос будет ставиться технически не об отделении а об расширении статуса автономии. Нюанс, всё-таки. Насколько могу судить, восток Украины не больно то поднимает бучу. Притихли и сидят, ждут, чем дело обернётся.
    Россия сегодня, кстати, официально назвала Януковича действующим президентом и предоставила ему убежище, что "какбе" намекает новым властям Украины, что договориться будет непросто. Но возможно.

    Вот чуть юмора, дабы разбавить (нецензурщина):
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  5. #125
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    До мая много времени ещё. К тому же, насколько я понимаю, на референдуме вопрос будет ставиться технически не об отделении а об расширении статуса автономии. Нюанс, всё-таки.
    Ибо расширение - понятние растяжимое. Парламент в Симферополе oчень осторожен. Всё-ж таки страшновато оказаться между китом и слоном.

  6. #126
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14Russian View Post
    I hope Right Sector can convince enough Ukrainians to not vote for any of the Opposition and that they establish their own candidate - and win. Then, it will be really interesting readng the posts here. For a chuckle.
    Oh, I see you really wish Ukrainans a happy future considering how a typical Right Sector guy behaves (the guy in the cap):



    In general I feel really sad after seeing what is happening in Ukraine now. I was there last time this January (at New Year holidays) and things were still relatively calm back then, at least at places there I was (Sumy and Chernigov oblasts). Damn, all this situation affects me pesonally because my kids usually spend summer at my mother-in-law's house in Ukrainian rural area. But after nazis came to power I'm afraid to even bring them to Ukrainian soil. Now I'll have to pay for summer camp for my son and for sanatorium for my wife and daughter in upcoming summer. Thanks, maidan imbeciles. I hope you'll all burn in hell.
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  7. #127
    Почтенный гражданин DrBaldhead's Avatar
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    This "typical Right Sector guy" is no other than Alexander Muzychko, who fought on the side of terrorists during the Chechnya campaign and is known for some other "feats". Today this piece of arrogant violence lectures Ukrainian police forces how to behave.

  8. #128
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    But after nazis came to power I'm afraid to even bring them to Ukrainian soil.
    /* sarcastic mode on */

    Oh, why? Haven't you noticed that some 'intelligencia' in Lvov assures they like Russians and nothing bad will happen to Russians in Ukraine? Why are you judging the situation based on the actions of the dubious individuals? You know, every righteous movement would have their idiots and bandits, what makes you undermine the whole movement of the Ukrainians for the better future? Lvov 'intelligencia' assured you nothing bad would happen, so that is exactly what's going to happen, since, as you know, it is Lvov 'intelligencia' which are the true rules of the renewed Ukraine!

    /* sarcastic mode off */

  9. #129
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    /* sarcastic mode on */

    Oh, why? Haven't you noticed that some 'intelligencia' in Lvov assures they like Russians and nothing bad will happen to Russians in Ukraine? Why are you judging the situation based on the actions of the dubious individuals? You know, every righteous movement would have their idiots and bandits, what makes you undermine the whole movement of the Ukrainians for the better future? Lvov 'intelligencia' assured you nothing bad would happen, so that is exactly what's going to happen, since, as you know, it is Lvov 'intelligencia' which are the true rules of the renewed Ukraine!

    /* sarcastic mode off */
    I understand you irony but my mood for seeing the situation in Ukraine with humor has gone since violent deaths occured there as the result of all these affairs. My mother-in-law tells that their oblast center recently got "visitors" from Lvov who captured regional goverment and police and command them what to do, are stopping cars with Russian plates at streets and openly rob people in them, several days ago they turned on the roof a shuttle-bus with people in it (there were small children among these people in bus) and other scary stories. They are not seem funny for me at all.
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  10. #130
    Почтенный гражданин 14Russian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    Oh, I see you really wish Ukrainans a happy future considering how a typical Right Sector guy behaves (the guy in the cap):



    In general I feel really sad after seeing what is happening in Ukraine now. I was there last time this January (at New Year holidays) and things were still relatively calm back then, at least at places there I was (Sumy and Chernigov oblasts). Damn, all this situation affects me pesonally because my kids usually spend summer at my mother-in-law's house in Ukrainian rural area. But after nazis came to power I'm afraid to even bring them to Ukrainian soil. Now I'll have to pay for summer camp for my son and for sanatorium for my wife and daughter in upcoming summer. Thanks, maidan imbeciles. I hope you'll all burn in hell.
    Oh so sad.... let me cry some tears that you won't go for vacation there. What is typical is your selfish, egocentric attitude. Where are the nazis that are in power? The ones getting appointed Government positions are all pro-EU liberals. The candidates will all be the same.

    Furthermore, if they get official power and sign EU contracts, part of that will be to outlaw the actions of Right sector and any right-wing groups. I am sure you prefer the incumbent regime's method of dealing with opposition and problematic individuals, shooting them, phony trials and imprisonment, torture and the list goes on. It is one of the reasons that the entire conflict escalated.

    But, you are whining that it might not be a good time to send kiddies there. Well, many people in Ukraine are looking after wounded, trying to find jobs and need to clean up their country. I'm sad to hear that you don't think you can send anyone there for vacation. I see this place is still populated by mostly neo-Soviet Putinist apologists.

  11. #131
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14Russian View Post
    Oh so sad.... let me cry some tears that you won't go for vacation there. What is typical is your selfish, egocentric attitude. Where are the nazis that are in power? The ones getting appointed Government positions are all pro-EU liberals. The candidates will all be the same.

    Furthermore, if they get official power and sign EU contracts, part of that will be to outlaw the actions of Right sector and any right-wing groups. I am sure you prefer the incumbent regime's method of dealing with opposition and problematic individuals, shooting them, phony trials and imprisonment, torture and the list goes on. It is one of the reasons that the entire conflict escalated.

    But, you are whining that it might not be a good time to send kiddies there. Well, many people in Ukraine are looking after wounded, trying to find jobs and need to clean up their country. I'm sad to hear that you don't think you can send anyone there for vacation. I see this place is still populated by mostly neo-Soviet Putinist apologists.
    I'm sad because the plague which was infesting relatively small remote region of Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol is now spreading to the whole country populated mostly by very nice, friendly people and quickly turning it into pretty dangerous place. But I see no way you can understand this so there is no point discussing with you. Have a nice day.
    Hanna likes this.
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  12. #132
    Почтенный гражданин diogen_'s Avatar
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    До мая много времени ещё. К тому же, насколько я понимаю, на референдуме вопрос будет ставиться технически не об отделении а об расширении статуса автономии. Нюанс, всё-таки.
    Ну да, и свежие законопроекты об упрощеной выдаче паспортов и порядке присоединения к РФ новых территорий никак с Крымом не связаны)). Свежо предание, да верится с трудом)). Крым – уже отрезанный ломоть))

    Насколько могу судить, восток Украины не больно то поднимает бучу. Притихли и сидят, ждут, чем дело обернётся.
    Ну потому что Крым – это преимущественно русские, а юго-восток населяют в основном русскоговорящие украинцы, а между планами “бандерлогов” первых “немножко рэзать” , а вторых “строго перевоспитывать” существует небольшое стилистическое различие. Ну, впрочем, сегодня на прессухе Янукович дал отмашку юго-востоку подниматься после прекращения выплат зарплат, пенсий, пособий. Так что непонятка остается лишь в сроках, а это целиком зависит от того, когда и насколько раскошелится “добрый американский дядюшка”.

    Россия сегодня, кстати, официально назвала Януковича действующим президентом и предоставила ему убежище, что "какбе" намекает новым властям Украины, что договориться будет непросто Но возможно.
    Честно говоря, думаю, что никакого намека не желание договариваться тут и в помине нет, а просто начата жесткая компания по мобилизации оппозиционного “майдановщине” электората. План Путина - это тебе не хухры-мухры

  13. #133
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Кстати, дядюшка нынче не добрый. Как я понял, у МВФ денег нет, Силуанов на двадцатке в Сиднее сказал, что де сомневается в способностях МВФ. МВФ кивает на дядю Сэма, а пока раздает кредиты не деньгами, а обещаниями дать денег, когда денег дадут американцы. Американцы особо не торопятся, и их можно понять - "инвестиции" в Украину сейчас, мягко говоря, рискованны.
    Вообще, мир современных финансов чуден и удивителен. МВФ дает бумажку, в которой написано, что они, может быть, перечислят по этой бумажке деньги, и предлагают "пока" занять денег в каком-нибудь банке. Банк этот чаще всего оказывается подконтрольным Федеральному резерву, который дает деньги в долг американскому правительству, которое должно как-нибудь потом перечислить деньги в банк ФРС в уплату обязательств по финансированию выдаваемого кредита.
    В общем, у меня есть такое чувство, что кредиты МВФ выдает самому себе. А если понятнее, то вероятность получения денег от МВФ Украиной приближается к нулю. Не зря Лагард уже "призвала" Россию, как регионального партнера поучаствовать в судьбе Украины. Это они так намекают, что неплохо бы России взять и компенсировать им за весь тот бардак, который они же и устроили. С европейской непосредственностью.
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  14. #134
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    I'm sad because the plague which was infesting relatively small remote region of Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol is now spreading to the whole country populated mostly by very nice, friendly people and quickly turning it into pretty dangerous place. But I see no way you can understand this so there is no point discussing with you. Have a nice day.
    Him and I are the same nationality, unfortunately he's the victim of propaganda.
    It's been a non-stop Russian bashing feast in our papers the last 15 years, and our foreign minister makes a sport of offending Russia. However a lot of people seem to be taking note now, so it'll hopefully change. But it seems 14Russian has read and believed all this for the last 15 years. Plus everything the US media says and a bunch of random conspiracy theories. Apologies on his behalf.

    According to the front page of the main Swedish paper "Russian tanks are rolling in Crimea".
    I don't actually believe this - the tanks don't look modern enough to be Russian, and are painted with with amateurish colours. They are saying that Russia invaded Ukrainian airspace and broke the contract for the bases in Simferopol.

    I don't believe Russia would do anything that rash at the moment, and I am sure Russia's foreign ministry are going to play this much smarter than this, despite the odds being against. Russia has been impressive in international politics, since Syria.

    Are these Russian, and are they breaking the treaty regarding the bases in Krim? They look really old, and why would anyone paint a crude flag on a camouflage vehicle?

    Are the front page stories about Russian troop movements in Crimea true or false?





    If anything happens, Crimea might try to proclaim independence like some other places done. But I don't think there is any chance Russia will invade or occupy or anything like that. Or?

  15. #135
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    Да побузят и успокоятся.
    Рамиль, не пора ли уже составить другой прогноз? Чтоб с попкорном..

  16. #136
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Are these Russian, and are they breaking the treaty regarding the bases in Krim? They look really old, and why would anyone paint a crude flag on a camouflage vehicle?

    Are the front page stories about Russian troop movements in Crimea true or false?


    Actually these exact APCs (armoured personnel carriers) could be only from our naval base in Sevastopol. See the pair of big vertical tubes in the back? They made to prevent engine from stopping while descending from a carrier ship. AFAIK Ukraine don't have these APCs. I'm eager to hear how Putin is going to explain all these too.
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  17. #137
    Hanna
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    I have been reading so much about how Russia is modernising its military, so I thought those looked too old! Then of course. I am no expert...

    I read that Russia sent 2000 troops to Crimea just now.
    Since I don't know anything about wars I don't know the significance. It doesn't seem enough for any large operation though...

    Plus I am aware that anything Russia does will be interpreted and written up in the most negative spin possible.
    I'm aware that Crimea could be argued as being "Russian" territory but that many others would not agree.

    If Russia does actually go in militarily, then it will change my perception of Russia as a peaceful country. I can certainly understand the reasons for doing it, but Nato, Poland, the Baltics, Scandinavia and others would immediately see that as "proof" of Russia's aggressiveness. So I hope that doesn't happen.

    The worst fear would be civil war in Ukraine, and war by proxy between Russia and Nato. What have Russian papers been writing?

  18. #138
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    Рамиль, не пора ли уже составить другой прогноз? Чтоб с попкорном..
    Ни один мой прогноз ещё не сбылся. Херовый я политолог. Надеюсь, хоть этот сбудется.

    Тут я кое-что почитал, у Крыма в стратегическом плане есть ещё одна весьма серьёзная проблема - пресная вода.
    Водоснабжение осуществляется вот так:
    • днепровская вода из Северо-Крымского канала, аккумулируемая в девяти наливных водохранилищах на территории АР Крым;
    • вода из крупных водохранилищ естественного сбора, которых в Крыму насчитывается около 20-ти (но не все они являются питьевыми);
    • вода артезианских скважин и каптированных источников.


    Как я понял, если Северо-Крымский канал перекрыть, то воды будет очень сильно не хватать.
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  19. #139
    Почтенный гражданин Suobig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    I have been reading so much about how Russia is modernising its military, so I thought those looked too old! Then of course. I am no expert...
    Why should it look new? It's not iPhone, you know

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    I read that Russia sent 2000 troops to Crimea just now.
    Since I don't know anything about wars I don't know the significance. It doesn't seem enough for any large operation though...
    There's no need in large operation. Russia sends military to control key transport. infrastructure objects and army depots. Looks like Kiev has no loyal troops in Crimea and no way to bring them there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Plus I am aware that anything Russia does will be interpreted and written up in the most negative spin possible.
    It's OK. Russia knows, if they blame you - you are doing all rignt, but if they praise you - you should stop and think what's gone wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    I'm aware that Crimea could be argued as being "Russian" territory but that many others would not agree.
    If it would be decided on local referendum - there would be no way to deny it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    If Russia does actually go in militarily, then it will change my perception of Russia as a peaceful country. I can certainly understand the reasons for doing it, but Nato, Poland, the Baltics, Scandinavia and others would immediately see that as "proof" of Russia's aggressiveness. So I hope that doesn't happen.
    No way Russia is a peaceful country. People in internet praise every successful military action, taken by russian forces. They somehow know all weapon models, helicopter models, clothes series, modifications and so on.

    The worst fear would be civil war in Ukraine, and war by proxy between Russia and Nato. What have Russian papers been writing?[/QUOTE]

    The thing is - civil war in Ukraine is advantageous for Russia. That doesn't mean Russia wants civil war or makes something to begin it. But in that case all eastern regions could be separated from Ukraine.

  20. #140
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    Actually these exact APCs (armoured personnel carriers) could be only from our naval base in Sevastopol. See the pair of big vertical tubes in the back? They made to prevent engine from stopping while descending from a carrier ship. AFAIK Ukraine don't have these APCs. I'm eager to hear how Putin is going to explain all these too.
    He's going to conquer the Crimea with these 3 APCs. Seriously though - I think they're from Sevastopol. It's a military naval base, after all and there are bound to be some armored vehicles.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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