Thread: Что происходит в Украине? События, новости.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Ну, и что Кипр - английская провинция?

В целом, да. Прямо или косвенно, с этой финансовой прачечной конечным бенефициаром выступала английская казна. Там одних типа "российских" денег крутилось до недавнего времени с половину этого острова. А где у нас все богатенькие россияне?
Сейчас не знаю, что там. Экономика в заднице, метрополия не помогает. Можно сказать, что вот только сейчас они ощутили на себе полную независимость.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Туристов будет больше. Может, какое бабло с аренды Севастополя перепадёт. Раньше это было 98 лимонов баксов в год.

Ага, вот Россия перечислила арендную плату и её тут же раздали крымчанам (утирает слезу), вложили в туристическую инфраструктуру (рыдаетЪ), туристы увидели всё это и метнулись отдыхать в Крым, вместо Анталии. Я, правда, не сильно понимаю, почему в составе Украины не произошло бы то же самое?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Дык, есть разница межды приездом "туристов" и возможностью приезда "туристов". Чтобы приехали турецкие "туристы", они должны согласовать свои визы с Украиной, Россией, ЕС, НАТО, США, и со жрецами-птицегадателями. А уже в самую последную очередь, с крымчанами.

У нас с Турцией безвизовое общение. Мы всем рады. Может, я слишком уж эзоповым языком выражаюсь. Туристы здесь - не только подлые диверсанты и шпиёны, скажем так - агенты влияния. Будут устанавливать крепкие экономические связи через море, возможно даже инвестировать, но денежные потоки все пойдут тоже через море.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

И чего? Хватило денег купить украинские облигации, хватит купить и крымские. Или заберут у Украины, отдадут Крыму. Проблема-то.. Резиденцию себе Путин уже построил, олимпиада отгремела, неужели опять покупать на кровные нефтерубли какие-то мерзкие ти-биллы богопротивных штатов?

Пощади! Вот с тарифами ЖКХ разберёмся и тогда про Крым поговорим...

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Я с возможностью блокады согласен. А что сейчас жрёт Кипр? И потом, ты считаешь, что все крымские порты сейчас простаивают?

Порт - дело торговое, хорошее. Только нужен он для перевалки грузов в Украину. Для перевалки в Россию есть Новороссийск и Туапсе - там есть инфраструктура и ж/д пути. При блокаде с севера, крымские порты теряют свою ценность. Я очень сильно сомневаюсь, что независимый Крым сможет прожить лишь за счёт туризма, да на арендную плату за базу в Севастополе. Других источников бюджетных поступлений у него не будет. Что будут жрать его граждане? То, что подбросят добрые люди в виде бюджетных субсидий, да гуманитарной помощи. И нахрена козе баян?

I really don't get what motivated these people.

It is clear, that they wanted the POWER, ASAP. What I don't get, why Yanukovich acted as he did.

It's not that Yanukovich was universally loved. He was the best of two evils. The alternative were the same nationalists that have just overthrown him. As far as I can understand they simply could not agree upon a single candidate and have lost the elections as a result.

Nobody wants the splitup of Ukraine (nobody from both sides). EU doesn't want it, Russia doesn't want it (I hope so, at least). Still if the conflict continues the best way to avoid a civil war would be to create a federation instead of a present unitarian model. Or even a confederation.

I think the important thing is that they get some stability and can set out a course for the future, and stick with it for 10-15 years so things improve. But that's impossible if everybody is sidetracked with quarelling about language, pro-West or Pro-Russia and dramatic changes in government on a regular basis.

This has happened before, so what's the guarantee it won't happen again..

The two groups in the country have different loyalties. Either you have a dictatorship that forces them to work together whether they want to or not, or allow them to split up in such a way that both sides get what they want, separately.

And they can't have a trade union and visa union with Russia and EU at the same time.
And they cannot expect to get subsidised energy from Russia while running the errands of the EU and USA.
Half the country cannot join the EU and the other be close to Russia, even if it's a federation.

I am afraid this is an endless loop of events; pro West, pro-Russia, Pro West, Pro Russia infinitely.
"He who does not remember history is doomed to repeat it."
They've been through this cycle 3-4 times now, there are no winners other than corrupt crooks and multinationals. The losers are Ukrainians, all of them...

I hope Right Sector can convince enough Ukrainians to not vote for any of the Opposition and that they establish their own candidate - and win. Then, it will be really interesting readng the posts here. For a chuckle.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

I hope Right Sector can convince enough Ukrainians to not vote for any of the Opposition and that they establish their own candidate - and win. Then, it will be really interesting readng the posts here. For a chuckle.

Confessing your true colours, huh? And it's brown, apparently.

Well, you should go live there in that case, you might feel right at home.

And if you wish it on the Ukrainians, it should be good enough for you anyway.

I think you'll find more people sympathising with your comments over at Stormfront. You obviously don't care a thing about what the people in Ukraine are going through.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Confessing your true colours, huh? And it's brown, apparently.

Well, you should go live there in that case, you might feel right at home.

And if you wish it on the Ukrainians, it should be good enough for you anyway.

I think you'll find more people sympathising with your comments over at Stormfront. You obviously don't care a thing about what the people in Ukraine are going through.

Your lack of knowledge and insight on all related issues here is legendary (not to mention, actual lack of interest in Russia, Ukraine etc.). I won't waste my time with you.

Btw, I support any cause for an independent and sovereign Ukraine, idealistic as that sounds. I am suspicious (being generous) of all the Opposition candidates and any that support the EU is catastrophic for Ukraine. It's short-term gain that will not develop well. Unfortunately, money talks and the economic situatiion of Ukraine dictates that there is an attempt to move towards the EU. Ukraine has a chance/opportunity to build their country for self-sufficiency but alas, they probably won't do so. Sadly.

For anyone who wants to attack me (like the other poster) for my unpopular perspective, go ahead. I will not respond. The issue and events that have transpired are complex. Discussions with Ukrainians and Russians of all political persuasians do help but there's a lot of 'propaganda' out there.

Good luck, Ukraine.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

I hope Right Sector can convince enough Ukrainians to not vote for any of the Opposition and that they establish their own candidate - and win. Then, it will be really interesting readng the posts here. For a chuckle.

So, you hope nazists will win and become rulers in Ukraine?

Originally Posted by Suobig

So, you hope nazists will win and become rulers in Ukraine?

Don't ask me, ask Ukrainians. I think many don't think they're 'nazis' but radicals. But, let's just say for sake of argument, they are 'nazists' - they won't last long. The EU has legislation to outlaw whatever views they have. So, the EUSSR will be shown as the hypocrites that they are. Many Americans like John McCain and others stood in front of these protesters. But, few said anything. They are used as pawns right now. The protests didn't escalate and prostesters didn't become more radical until the incumbent Government started clamping down. Abuses of power including changing the Constitution (criminalizing any criticism) and commiting violence against the protesters united everyone in their condemnation of the regime.

It's really despicable how all these organizations and countries are provoking this tug-'o-war and fortunately, so far, Russia has kept their distance. However, it's obvious the EU has no good intentions. The full recording of Victoria Nuland proves that.

So, go ahead and call them 'nazists' but make sure you ask enough Ukrainains about it. I'm sure they will have a different view.

Одесские активисты «Правого сектора» надевают маски не потому, что боятся противников или милиции. Такое заявление сделал на заседании политического совета в областной администрации лидер городского отделения «Правого сектора» Иван Вышатый. По его словам, они опасаются, что если их опознают, то «учителя в школах и училищах будут чморить», передает корреспондент Полемики.
Таким образом, он признал, что костяк одесского «Правого сектора», претендующего на лидерство в майдановской среде, состоит, в основном, из школьников.

.................................................. ............

Отметим, что, по мнению заместителя начальника областного УВД Дмитрия Фучеджи, такого рода опасения совершенно несостоятельны. «В нынешних условиях опасаться преследования со стороны преподавателей просто смешно», - подчеркнул правоохранитель.

Одесские активисты «Правого сектора» заявили, что боятся учителей :: Polemika.com.ua

Originally Posted by 14Russian

So, go ahead and call them 'nazists' but make sure you ask enough Ukrainains about it. I'm sure they will have a different view.

I would call black "black" even if most ukranians disagree with me. It's not a question of their agreement. It's a fact.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

I hope Right Sector can convince enough Ukrainians to not vote for any of the Opposition and that they establish their own candidate - and win. Then, it will be really interesting readng the posts here. For a chuckle.

Oh, I see you really wish Ukrainans a happy future considering how a typical Right Sector guy behaves (the guy in the cap):



In general I feel really sad after seeing what is happening in Ukraine now. I was there last time this January (at New Year holidays) and things were still relatively calm back then, at least at places there I was (Sumy and Chernigov oblasts). Damn, all this situation affects me pesonally because my kids usually spend summer at my mother-in-law's house in Ukrainian rural area. But after nazis came to power I'm afraid to even bring them to Ukrainian soil. Now I'll have to pay for summer camp for my son and for sanatorium for my wife and daughter in upcoming summer. Thanks, maidan imbeciles. I hope you'll all burn in hell.

Originally Posted by Basil77

But after nazis came to power I'm afraid to even bring them to Ukrainian soil.

/* sarcastic mode on */

Oh, why? Haven't you noticed that some 'intelligencia' in Lvov assures they like Russians and nothing bad will happen to Russians in Ukraine? Why are you judging the situation based on the actions of the dubious individuals? You know, every righteous movement would have their idiots and bandits, what makes you undermine the whole movement of the Ukrainians for the better future? Lvov 'intelligencia' assured you nothing bad would happen, so that is exactly what's going to happen, since, as you know, it is Lvov 'intelligencia' which are the true rules of the renewed Ukraine!

/* sarcastic mode off */

Originally Posted by Crocodile

/* sarcastic mode on */

Oh, why? Haven't you noticed that some 'intelligencia' in Lvov assures they like Russians and nothing bad will happen to Russians in Ukraine? Why are you judging the situation based on the actions of the dubious individuals? You know, every righteous movement would have their idiots and bandits, what makes you undermine the whole movement of the Ukrainians for the better future? Lvov 'intelligencia' assured you nothing bad would happen, so that is exactly what's going to happen, since, as you know, it is Lvov 'intelligencia' which are the true rules of the renewed Ukraine!

/* sarcastic mode off */

I understand you irony but my mood for seeing the situation in Ukraine with humor has gone since violent deaths occured there as the result of all these affairs. My mother-in-law tells that their oblast center recently got "visitors" from Lvov who captured regional goverment and police and command them what to do, are stopping cars with Russian plates at streets and openly rob people in them, several days ago they turned on the roof a shuttle-bus with people in it (there were small children among these people in bus) and other scary stories. They are not seem funny for me at all.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Oh, I see you really wish Ukrainans a happy future considering how a typical Right Sector guy behaves (the guy in the cap):



In general I feel really sad after seeing what is happening in Ukraine now. I was there last time this January (at New Year holidays) and things were still relatively calm back then, at least at places there I was (Sumy and Chernigov oblasts). Damn, all this situation affects me pesonally because my kids usually spend summer at my mother-in-law's house in Ukrainian rural area. But after nazis came to power I'm afraid to even bring them to Ukrainian soil. Now I'll have to pay for summer camp for my son and for sanatorium for my wife and daughter in upcoming summer. Thanks, maidan imbeciles. I hope you'll all burn in hell.

Oh so sad.... let me cry some tears that you won't go for vacation there. What is typical is your selfish, egocentric attitude. Where are the nazis that are in power? The ones getting appointed Government positions are all pro-EU liberals. The candidates will all be the same.

Furthermore, if they get official power and sign EU contracts, part of that will be to outlaw the actions of Right sector and any right-wing groups. I am sure you prefer the incumbent regime's method of dealing with opposition and problematic individuals, shooting them, phony trials and imprisonment, torture and the list goes on. It is one of the reasons that the entire conflict escalated.

But, you are whining that it might not be a good time to send kiddies there. Well, many people in Ukraine are looking after wounded, trying to find jobs and need to clean up their country. I'm sad to hear that you don't think you can send anyone there for vacation. I see this place is still populated by mostly neo-Soviet Putinist apologists.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Oh so sad.... let me cry some tears that you won't go for vacation there. What is typical is your selfish, egocentric attitude. Where are the nazis that are in power? The ones getting appointed Government positions are all pro-EU liberals. The candidates will all be the same.

Furthermore, if they get official power and sign EU contracts, part of that will be to outlaw the actions of Right sector and any right-wing groups. I am sure you prefer the incumbent regime's method of dealing with opposition and problematic individuals, shooting them, phony trials and imprisonment, torture and the list goes on. It is one of the reasons that the entire conflict escalated.

But, you are whining that it might not be a good time to send kiddies there. Well, many people in Ukraine are looking after wounded, trying to find jobs and need to clean up their country. I'm sad to hear that you don't think you can send anyone there for vacation. I see this place is still populated by mostly neo-Soviet Putinist apologists.

I'm sad because the plague which was infesting relatively small remote region of Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol is now spreading to the whole country populated mostly by very nice, friendly people and quickly turning it into pretty dangerous place. But I see no way you can understand this so there is no point discussing with you. Have a nice day.

Originally Posted by Basil77

I'm sad because the plague which was infesting relatively small remote region of Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol is now spreading to the whole country populated mostly by very nice, friendly people and quickly turning it into pretty dangerous place. But I see no way you can understand this so there is no point discussing with you. Have a nice day.

Him and I are the same nationality, unfortunately he's the victim of propaganda.
It's been a non-stop Russian bashing feast in our papers the last 15 years, and our foreign minister makes a sport of offending Russia. However a lot of people seem to be taking note now, so it'll hopefully change. But it seems 14Russian has read and believed all this for the last 15 years. Plus everything the US media says and a bunch of random conspiracy theories. Apologies on his behalf.

According to the front page of the main Swedish paper "Russian tanks are rolling in Crimea".
I don't actually believe this - the tanks don't look modern enough to be Russian, and are painted with with amateurish colours. They are saying that Russia invaded Ukrainian airspace and broke the contract for the bases in Simferopol.

I don't believe Russia would do anything that rash at the moment, and I am sure Russia's foreign ministry are going to play this much smarter than this, despite the odds being against. Russia has been impressive in international politics, since Syria.

Are these Russian, and are they breaking the treaty regarding the bases in Krim? They look really old, and why would anyone paint a crude flag on a camouflage vehicle?

Are the front page stories about Russian troop movements in Crimea true or false?





If anything happens, Crimea might try to proclaim independence like some other places done. But I don't think there is any chance Russia will invade or occupy or anything like that. Or?

А между тем, в замке у Шефа..

Originally Posted by www.bbc.co.uk/russian/international/2014/02/140227_crimea_parliament.shtml

Парламент Крыма назначил референдум о расширении полномочий автономии на 25 мая.

Между тем Центральная избирательная комиссия Украины заявила, что
юридической базы для проведения референдума в Крыму нет, сообщил в
интервью агентству УНИАН член Центральной избирательной комиссии Юрий
Донченко.