Thread: Valda - разные вопросы по глаголам

The word подойти is future. "I will approach/he will approach/they will approach/.... etc etc

Now, we also got "подходить" - which means the same thing, but in present form!

Both of those verbs have past forms. What's the difference between the past form of подойти and the past form of подходить then?

The words with prefix plus идти are perfective, while the verbs with ходить are imperfective with the same basic meaning. This is true for all verbs of motion. I suppose that you know that a set of basic verbs of motion are special in that they are either directional (идти, ехать) or not (ходить, ездить). But the moment a prefix gets attached to them they lose that special status and become normal perfective / imperfective verb pairs, with the directional verb being the basis for the perfective verb and the non-directional one for the imperfective one.

There is an odd man out, съездить, which is perfective (there may be more, but that's the one I can think of right now). Furthermore, the perfective verbs using *-ехать have imperfective counterparts using *-езжать and not, as one might think, *-ездить.

Originally Posted by Valda

The word подойти is future. "I will approach/he will approach/they will approach/.... etc etc

Now, we also got "подходить" - which means the same thing, but in present form!

Both of those verbs have past forms. What's the difference between the past form of подойти and the past form of подходить then?

Подойти is not future, it is an infinitive. The future form will be подойду (я подойду, он подойдет...). It means I will approach (or maybe come to your place, come to see you) and I am certain about it. Я подойду завтра - you promise to come. While the future form of подходить is буду подходить, it means the process. It can be used, for example "Когда я буду подходить к дому, я позвоню" - "When approaching the house, I will call you"

In present it is "подхожу" - I am approaching, I am coming
Past form will be "подошёл" (have come) or " подходил" (when we came the train was approaching the station - когда мы пришли, поезд уже подходил (it hasn't stopped yet)

Originally Posted by Valda

The word подойти is future.

No, it is not. It is the infinitive form, and the infinitive form does not have any grammar tense.
But it has the aspect: "подойти" is a perfective verb (as bitpicker noticed).

Perfective verbs are never used in present tense, they only have two tenses: past (e.g. он подошёл) and future (e.g. он подойдёт).

Originally Posted by Valda

"I will approach/he will approach/they will approach/.... etc etc

I will approach - Я подойду (perf.) and Я буду подходить (imperf.)
He will approach - Он подойдёт (perf.) and Он будет подходить (imperf.)
They will approach - Они подойдут (perf.) and Они будут подходить (imperf.)
etc.etc.

Originally Posted by Valda

"Now, we also got "подходить" - which means the same thing, but in present form!.

No.
1. It does not mean the same thing: "подойти" is perfective (a single completed action as a whole), but "подходить" is imperfective (it can be habitual, repeated action, or a single action in its process).
2. "Подходить" is not the present form! It is the infinitive form.The infinitive cannot have any grammar tense.

The imperfective verbs (unlike perfective ones) can form all 3 tenses: present (e.g. он подходит), past (e.g. он подходил) and future (он будет подходить).

Originally Posted by Valda

"Both of those verbs have past forms.

Yes. And both of them also have future tense forms.

Подходить:
present: он подходит, past: он подходил, future: он будет подходить
Подойти:
present: none, past: он подошёл, future: он подойдёт

Originally Posted by Valda

What's the difference between the past form of подойти and the past form of подходить then?

The difference is the perfective/imperfective aspect.
Valda, are you familiar with the concept of Russian aspect?

You mean a finish action and an unfinished action?

Ahh but I think I understand. подойти is more like "to be approaching"

подходить is more like "to approach"

In this case things are quite cleared up thanks

Such as, if I wanna say to someone "Don't come off stupid"
"Try to come out smart"

Which word do I use for "come off" or "come out"?


FYI, come out is a more positive connotation
come off is more of a negative connotation

That's the other way around:

подходить (imperfective) is more like "to be approaching"
подойти (perfective) is more like "to have approached"

But they are not exact definitions, just approximations. That's why I asked if you are familiar with the concept of Russian aspect. Do you know that nearly all Russian verbs have perfective-imperfective aspect pairs?

My try:

1. Не строй из себя дурака. (Literally: do not build a fool of yourself).
2. Старайся выглядеть умнее. (Literally: try to look smarter).

Ещё можно сказать:
1. Не придуривайся! (грубовато; говорят тому, кого хорошо знают).
2. А не мог бы придумать что-нибудь поумнее?

I want to say "strive to make a change".... стремиться к делать изменение ?

Can I use a verb after "к"?

In English "to" which is used to mark infinitive is a particle. Preposition "to" is a different word. In Russian you don't need any particles to mark infinitive, endings are used instead.

Phrases like "strive to make a change" can be translated in different ways, there is no universal recipe. Often construction with infinitive do, but in your example context is not enough to translate.

Ways of translating such phrases:
- just infinitive: I want to live. - Я хочу жить.
- чтобы + infinitive: I was born to live. - Я рожден, чтобы жить. (Complex sentence actually)
- use a noun instead: I was born to live. - Я рожден для жизни.
etc.

I see, in that case

стремиться чтобы делать изменение should work

Originally Posted by Valda

I see, in that case

стремиться чтобы делать изменение should work

I don't think it sounds good.

1. "чтобы" adds the meaning of "in order to", it indicates a purpose. It's useful when you do Action 1 in order to perform Action 2.
As in the example above, I was born to live. - Я рожден, чтобы жить. - "чтобы" works perfectly well: "I was born" (Action 1) "in order to live" (Action 2), where Action 2 is the purpose of Action 1.

As in "strive to make a change" the first verb is not a separate action at all. You cannot use it alone. Imagine the situation:
- What are you doing?
- I am striving!
- Oh, I see! It's a great business! Do you like striving?
- Actually, not.
- Not? But why are you striving then?
- I just have to. Because I'm striving in order to make a change.

If you find the imaginary dialogue funny, then you should get why "чтобы" is not applicable here.

I would not use any "чтобы" here: "стремиться делать изменение".

2. Even the phrase above (стремиться делать изменение) does not sound Russian. I do not like "делать изменение" at all. I would just use the verb "менять" or "изменить": "стремиться что-либо изменить" with specifying a noun (to change what?).

E.g.: He is striving to change the life. - Он стремится изменить жизнь.

If you do not want to specify a subject of change, I would rephrase it the following way:

Он стремится к переменам. (He strives for changes).

Another answer to Valda's general question: to use a verb after a preposition, you can theoretically use a construction with the neuter demonstrative pronoun то + чтобы + [infinitive] -- putting the то in whatever case the preposition requires. So, for example:

"I am striving towards changing my life."
я стремлюсь к тому, чтобы изменить свою жизнь.

(Here, the "towards" in English is unambiguously a preposition, and can't be confused with the infinitive-marker "to".)

In such Russian constructions, the то is basically functioning as a "dummy word" or "placeholder" -- it fulfills the requirement that к must be followed by a word in the dative case, since verbs can't be put into the dative or instrumental or whatever. Another example:

"Instead of reading the novel, I watched the film adaptation on YouTube."
Вместо того, чтобы читать роман, я смотрел экранизацию на YouTube.

The preposition вместо requires the genitive, so using "вместо того, чтобы читать" is an alternative to using a verbal-noun construction such as вместо чтения романа ("instead of the reading of the novel"). Some people may even like the того, чтобы construction better, because they might consider the double-genitive phrase "of the reading of the novel" to be unaesthetic, although there's nothing grammatically wrong with it.

But even when such то, чтобы constructions are possible, a lot of times it might sound better to reconstruct the sentence and not use a preposition (even if there is one in English). So in the above example you could paraphrase "I watched the movie instead of reading the novel" and express the same idea by saying, instead, "I haven't read this novel; I've only watched the movie based on it." Thus, you totally avoid a prepositional construction.

Or, you can use a verbal noun in Russian (like перемен or чтение) instead of an actual verb -- the best choice will depend on the context.

"стремиться делать изменение" is grammatical but meaningless. Do you strive for the process of changing of for a completed action? If the later, you should write "стремиться сделать изменение" but the word изменение in Russian if used in singular means "the change" (i.e. one particular change). If you mean just changes in general, you should use plural, thus "стремиться сделать изменения". This is more meaningful.

Providing better context:

-The system is broken, John! You should get out of politics.
-Well, Sam, I'm just striving to make a change. Someone needs to.

"стремиться делать изменение" is grammatical but meaningless. Do you strive for the process of changing of for a completed action? If the later, you should write "стремиться сделать изменение" but the word изменение in Russian if used in singular means "the change" (i.e. one particular change). If you mean just changes in general, you should use plural, thus "стремиться сделать изменения". This is more meaningful.

In the context above, will it work?

Or should I go with Bob's other suggestion: стремлю́сь к переме́нам ?

In this context the better choice is "я стараюсь что-то изменить". "Стремлюсь к переменам" is OK in the context of politics but it means you do not know what change do you want and to what end. It also implies that you want the changes to be made by somebody else or the system reform by itself rather than making the changes yourself. "Я стараюсь что-то изменить" means "I want to change the system myself".

I want "to solve" an exercise, like for homeworks....which on do I use?

решить
solve, adjudge, adjudicate
решать
solve, decide, resolve, settle, determine, choose

Мы не решаем упражнения, мы их делаем.
Можно решить математическую задачу или пример, или проблему.
Решить and решать mean the same. The difference lies in the aspect of the verb.
Решить is perfective, решать is imperfective.
The proper aspect can be chosen depending on the context.

Thanks Helen I had a sneaky suspicion it all winds down to aspects! My personal hell