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Thread: The ultimate Russian noun-endings list

  1. #21
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Update: http://bit.ly/1vbMUyY

    *I fixed the accusative singular of the -iye ending. A member on another forum pointed out that the ending shouldn't be dropped in the accusative singular form, but rather remain the same as the nominative singular form. I checked this with a grammar book of mine and he was right. The grammar book mentioned to "do nothing" for the accusative singular, which I interpreted as "drop the ending", however it means "do nothing - compared to the nominative". Interpretations, interpretations! So it has been fixed accordingly.

    If anyone sees any more errors, feel free to post them and I'll fix them if it's in accordance with multiple other sources, to make the table as reliable as possible.

  2. #22
    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart Of A Lion View Post
    Good points.

    Your post illustrates the need to list the exceptions that don't even follow the "exception patterns" like they're listed on Wikipedia for example. It's going to be quite a task to compile all that, but like I said, I intend to make this thing as complete as possible.
    If you're looking around for an offline, dead-tree text, I would recommend Using Russian by Derek Offord and Natalia Gogolitsyna. It's really intended for students at the intermediate level and above, so it's not necessarily helpful for beginners who are still trying to make sense of elementary grammar rules. However, it does have excellent sections on "model verb and noun paradigms" with lots of tables organized by basic patterns, and long lists of which prepositions take which case, and so forth. If you can find it used at a cheap price, it's certainly very convenient to have at hand so that you don't need to go looking up declension-tables on wikipedia.
    Heart Of A Lion likes this.
    Говорит Бегемот: "Dear citizens of MR -- please correct my Russian mistakes!"

  3. #23
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    If you're looking around for an offline, dead-tree text, I would recommend Using Russian by Derek Offord and Natalia Gogolitsyna. It's really intended for students at the intermediate level and above, so it's not necessarily helpful for beginners who are still trying to make sense of elementary grammar rules. However, it does have excellent sections on "model verb and noun paradigms" with lots of tables organized by basic patterns, and long lists of which prepositions take which case, and so forth. If you can find it used at a cheap price, it's certainly very convenient to have at hand so that you don't need to go looking up declension-tables on wikipedia.
    Thanks, I've added it to my 'books to read' list.

  4. #24
    Почтенный гражданин Soft sign's Avatar
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    Heart Of A Lion likes this.
    Please correct my English

  5. #25
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soft sign View Post
    I already got it. Either way, thanks.

  6. #26
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    I'm wondering how to integrate the following information in the table that I posted: Russian grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In this Wikipedia article, under the table of "Second Declension - Masculine nouns", there are 3 notes listed:

    Notes:

    1. After a sibilant (ж, ч, ш) or a velar (г, к, or х) consonant, и is written. And а for some words (глаз — глаза, доктор — доктора, etc.).
    2. After a sibilant, ей is written.
    3. After a soft consonant, ё is written when stressed; е when unstressed.

    I don't want to put these notes as just notes under the table, because I think they can be integrated into the table, by putting in a number of extra rows with slightly adjusted endings.


    For example:

    Integrating note 1 + 2 in an extra row for the sibilant ж:

    Second decl. m.: -ж, -жа, -жу, N or G, -жом, -же, -жы, -жей, -жам, N or G, -жами, -жах


    However I'm not sure if I'm doing this right or if it even can be done this way. If so, then I can do this for all the sibilants.

    But before I do this, I wanted to check with you guys if this is a correct way of integrating these notes in the table.

  7. #27
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Also, just to make sure, these are all the sibilants of the Russian alphabet right?

    ж, ц, ч, ш and щ

    з and с are not sibilants or am I wrong? Because I never see them included in any sibilant lists.

    And all the velar consonants are г, к, and х right?

    Or are there any more?

    I'm asking because I want to be as thorough and complete as possible.

  8. #28
    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure с and з are "fricatives" or something. They're not grouped with ш щ ц and all of them.
    Heart Of A Lion likes this.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart Of A Lion View Post
    I'm wondering how to integrate the following information in the table that I posted: Russian grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In this Wikipedia article, under the table of "Second Declension - Masculine nouns", there are 3 notes listed:

    Notes:

    1. After a sibilant (ж, ч, ш) or a velar (г, к, or х) consonant, и is written. And а for some words (глаз — глаза, доктор — доктора, etc.).
    2. After a sibilant, ей is written.
    3. After a soft consonant, ё is written when stressed; е when unstressed.

    I don't want to put these notes as just notes under the table, because I think they can be integrated into the table, by putting in a number of extra rows with slightly adjusted endings.


    For example:

    Integrating note 1 + 2 in an extra row for the sibilant ж:

    Second decl. m.: -ж, -жа, -жу, N or G, -жом, -же, -жы, -жей, -жам, N or G, -жами, -жах


    However I'm not sure if I'm doing this right or if it even can be done this way. If so, then I can do this for all the sibilants.

    But before I do this, I wanted to check with you guys if this is a correct way of integrating these notes in the table.

    The first and the second column of the table in Wikipedia show endigns for stems on hard and soft consonant. The actual difference is in -ов/-ей and -ом/-ем/-ём:
    * Genitive Plural: -ов after a hard consonant, -ей after a soft consonant.
    * Instrumental Singular: -ом after a hard consonant, -ем or -ём after a soft consonant, depending on stress. (As far as I know, there is no way to guess the correct stress. You have to remember it.)

    All other Cases have pure orthographical variations:
    soft consonant + -а = -я
    soft consonant + -у = -ю
    soft consonant + -ы = -и
    soft consonant + -ам = -ям
    and so on.

    Exceptions:

    -хы, -кы, -гы are impossible combinations of sounds in Russian, so we use -хи, -ки, -ги in the Nominative Plural.
    грех - грехи, бог - боги.


    Ч is always soft, but the orthography does its job here:
    Плач (no ь), плача (чя is impossible), плачу (чю is impossible), плачем, о плаче, плачи, плачей, плачам, плачами, о плачах.
    Also, -ч + stressed -ём should be written as -чом. Instrumental Singular of ключ is ключом, not ключём.


    Ж and ш are hard, but behave as soft:
    * -ей in the Genitive Plural
    * alternation of -ем/-ом in the Instrumental Singular.
    Also, -и in the Nominative Plural, since жы is orthographicaly impossible.
    чиж, чижа, чижу, чижом, о чиже, чижи, чижей, чижам, чижами, о чижах
    марш, марша, маршу, маршем, о марше, марши, маршей, маршам, маршами, о маршах


    So, to summarize the above, the rows for your table:

    For -х, -к, -г:
    -х, -ха, -ху, -хом, -хе, -хи, -хов, -хам, -хами, -хах
    -к, -ка, -ку, -ком, -ке, -ки, -ков, -кам, -ками, -ках
    -г, -га, -гу, -гом, -ге, -ги, -гов, -гам, -гами, -гах
    For -ч:
    -ч, -ча, -чу, -чом/-чем, -че, -чи, -чей, -чам, -чами, -чах
    For -ж, -ш:
    -ж, -жа, -жу, -жом/-жем, -же, -жи, -жей, -жам, -жами, -жах
    -ш, -ша, -шу, -шом/-шем, -ше, -ши, -шей, -шам, -шами, -шах
    For hard consonants except for -х, -к, -г, -ж, -ш:
    -, -а, -у, -ом, -е, -ы, -ов, -ам, -ами, -ах
    For soft consonants except for -ч:
    -ь, -я, -ю, -ём/-ем, -е, -и, -ей, -ям, -ями, -ях


    -------------------------------------------------------

    What about -а in the Nominative Plural, it is completely different matter. Quite a number of nouns have -а/-я in the the Nominative Plural instead of -ы/-и.
    Бока, глаза, доктора, тополя, кабеля, короба, сервера, слесаря, сектора, договора, крема.
    In the colloquial language, you can even hear such weird (and ungrammatical) forms as супа, снайпера, соуса, артикула.

    That -а/-я is always stressed.

    You have to remember all those words, there is no rule for them.
    Lampada and Heart Of A Lion like this.

  10. #30
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Amazing post RedFox. I've integrated the information you provided into the table. One thing I'm still thinking about though is how to integrate the exception-words, which need to be remembered as well. However I will try to think of an elegant way to do this as I expand the table.

    Either way, here's an update: http://bit.ly/1xCyNa9
    RedFox likes this.

  11. #31
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    Oops, I've forgotten about -щ! It is the same case as that of -ч:
    The phoneme is always soft, but the combinations щя, щю, щё should be spelled as ща, щу, що.

    Плащ, плаща, плащу, плащом, плаще, плащи, плащей, плащам, плащами, плащах.

    -щ, -ща, -щу, -щом/-щем, -ще, -щи, -щей, -щам, -щами, -щах

  12. #32

  13. #33
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFox View Post
    Oops, I've forgotten about -щ! It is the same case as that of -ч:
    The phoneme is always soft, but the combinations щя, щю, щё should be spelled as ща, щу, що.

    Плащ, плаща, плащу, плащом, плаще, плащи, плащей, плащам, плащами, плащах.

    -щ, -ща, -щу, -щом/-щем, -ще, -щи, -щей, -щам, -щами, -щах
    Thank you RedFox, I've added these now as well.

    Update: http://bit.ly/1Aq5gQn

  14. #34
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Some of you might be thinking why I am trying to create such a complete table of Russian noun endings. The answer is simple, namely I haven't been able to find any English sources that provide such a table in a comprehensive and simple way, while at the same time being as complete as possible. Sure, there are some grammar books that have such tables, but those tables are far from complete. Even Wikipedia isn't fully complete.

    So in a way, someone like me who is serious about learning Russian, will have to make such a table themselves, otherwise the information is spread across many grammar books, websites and Wikipedia, which can make learning Russian a difficult task.

    That's why I'm glad to have found the Master Russian forum, because the quality in-depth answers here allow me to move forward in compiling and mapping important parts of the Russian language that need to be learned and remembered. In this way Russian becomes understandable for the "Western mind" so to speak.

    And at the same time I get to share this with other people who want to learn Russian. :)

  15. #35
    Почётный участник Meerkat's Avatar
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    Спасибо, Сердце львова. Я думаю, что ваша работа очень хорошо, и буду рассказывать моим друзьям о ваша таблице. Мало ошибок я заметил: акценты нет в third declination neuters, и на "путя́ми" акцент неправильный. Огромное спасибо ещё раз!
    Last edited by Meerkat; January 6th, 2015 at 09:24 PM. Reason: ошибки

  16. #36
    Новичок
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    interesting project, I'm still working through digesting your chart

    have a question, where does a word like палец work out on the chart?

  17. #37
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Update: http://bit.ly/1cYyQUt

    I've added tables that list the genders of endings in a comprehensive way and a table that lists the vowels, consonants and signs.
    The reason is that some of the notes at the bottom contain terms like "consonant", "vowel", "hard" and "soft".
    A beginner of Russian language will not necessarily know which letters are vowels, consonants and which ones are hard or soft.

    I've also added more notes to clarify certain things.

    If anyone has any more ideas of what I can add to this table, then let me know. One example could be to make
    a distinction between animate and inanimate words, so that people who see the table, can discern whether
    they need to use the Nominative or Genitive case.

    However I'm still figuring out on how to do that in the most comprehensive and simple way. If anyone has
    ideas for this, then feel free to let me know.

    Quote Originally Posted by kixnbux View Post
    interesting project, I'm still working through digesting your chart

    have a question, where does a word like палец work out on the chart?
    I think it will fall under: - 1

    Because:

    1. The word ends with a consonant
    2. It's a hard consonant, but it doesn't fall under the listed exceptions

    However some people on this forum will have to confirm this, because I'm not sure about it.

  18. #38
    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    Very close, but Genitive plural will be пальцев not пальцов
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

  19. #39
    Подающий надежды оратор Heart Of A Lion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxmixiv View Post
    Very close, but Genitive plural will be пальцев not пальцов
    Is the word палец an exception in regards to this or should there be a new seperate line for -ц endings?

  20. #40
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart Of A Lion View Post
    Is the word палец an exception in regards to this or should there be a new seperate line for -ц endings?
    Would this be helpful?

    "Большинство слов с основой на ц (платьице), в соответствии с общим правилом, имеют нулевое окончание. Некоторые из них испытывают колебания в употреблении, принимая безударное окончание -ев или ударное -ов: блюдец – блюдцев, полотенец – полотенцев. За отдельными словами это окончание закреплено нормативно: болотцев, дéревцев, деревцóв, кружевцев, оконцев, сенцев."

    Склонение имён существительных

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