Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Russian noun stress

  1. #1
    JackBoni
    Guest

    Russian noun stress

    Hi

    I'm not even sure whether this should be going into the pronunciation section, but I suppose it will be moved if it's in the wrong place. When I'm speaking Russian, noun stress is really starting to get me down, because I very often put the stress in the wrong place. Is it worth memorising the stress of every single word I learn as I learn it, or is it something that will just come naturally with practice, without having to bother with that? Although I don't write Russian particularly well at the moment - I am determined I will get a lot better - I am lots worse when I speak. I don't think it's because of nerves, but partly because of this stress thing. Does anyone have any advice? Even if it's just telling me to stop being lazy and start memorising stress? .

    Спасибо за помощь. Я всем очень благодарен.
    Джек

  2. #2
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Surely not the answer you are looking for... nor an invitation to betray your Russian studies,

    but other Slavic languages have fixed stress. For example, Polish has the stress on the penultimate syllable, Czech and Slovak on the first syllable.
    Я вас любил так искренно, так нежно,
    Как дай вам бог любимой быть другим.

  3. #3
    JackBoni
    Guest

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Although that's not the answer I'm looking for, Leushka, that's still very interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. I wonder why Russian just has to be different

    Jack

  4. #4
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Invalid City!
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Russian noun stress

    I think you just need to suck it down and memorise the stress pattern for each word (or even each declension). There are rules and patterns that govern noun stress (should be included in any half-way decent grammar) but they're so complicated and have so many exceptions that I didn't find them all that useful to begin with.

  5. #5
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Other Universe
    Posts
    8,501
    Rep Power
    27

    Re: Russian noun stress

    - don't be like this smiley.

    I can recommend any listening course or simply watching Russian TV / movies with subtitles. It will come to you... eventually.

    It's easier to get the knack of it this way. Memorising could help but I shudder of the sheer amount of effort you're suggesging. Listening / Watching is easier and more interesting.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  6. #6
    JackBoni
    Guest

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Thanks for your suggestions, Scotcher and Ramil. Thank you for the humour, Ramil - stress in Russian is a very difficult topic, I think; I've been struggling with it for years. We have Russian TV here at uni; I will make an effort to watch some. Also, I could listen to Russian radio, I suppose. Anything you particularly recommend?

    Спасибо за помощь. Я иду теперь на семинар русского

    Джек

  7. #7
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Russland
    Posts
    9,882
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Я иду теперь на семинар по русскому
    урок чего? (of what?)
    семинар по чему? (on what?)

    теперь - now (and from now on)
    сейчас - (right) now

    So: Я сейчас иду на семинар по русскому (языку).
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  8. #8
    Увлечённый спикер mudrets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    США - моя родина.
    Posts
    50
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Russian noun stress

    There's a helpful book by V. Klepko which offers rules of thumb for
    determining stress placement in Russian.

    http://www.amazon.ca/Practical-Handb.../dp/141020541X

  9. #9
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,384
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Quote Originally Posted by Leushka
    Surely not the answer you are looking for... nor an invitation to betray your Russian studies,

    but other Slavic languages have fixed stress. For example, Polish has the stress on the penultimate syllable, Czech and Slovak on the first syllable.
    Some but not all. ))) Polish, Czech, and Slovak are West Slavic languages and Russian, Ukrainian, and Byelorussian are East Slavic languages. In Ukrainian stress is also not fixed, and as far as I know the same in Byelorussian.
    There are also South Slavic languages (Bulgarian, Macedonian, Slovene and so on), but I know nothing about stress in languages of this group, sorry. )
    I just wanted to show that not any other Slavic language would do for saving the learner from this problem. )
    If you have problems with both posting new messages and sending PMs, you can send an e-mail to the Forum Administrator here:
    http://masterrussian.net/sendmessage.php
    У меня что-то с почтой, на ЛС ответить не могу. (

  10. #10
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Other Universe
    Posts
    8,501
    Rep Power
    27

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Thanks for your suggestions, Scotcher and Ramil. Thank you for the humour, Ramil - stress in Russian is a very difficult topic, I think; I've been struggling with it for years. We have Russian TV here at uni; I will make an effort to watch some. Also, I could listen to Russian radio, I suppose. Anything you particularly recommend?

    Спасибо за помощь. Я иду теперь на семинар русского

    Джек

    I'd recommend anything with russian subtitles. DVDs fit best, I think.
    Listening alone woudn't probably help since there will be words that you wouldn't understand. With subtitles though you can read the words and then listen to them. And the most important thing that you can remember the words by associating them with movies you watch (you'll remember the words spoken in a live context) and thus, after a while, it will simply pop into your head when you need it.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  11. #11
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,384
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Russian noun stress

    I agree with Ramil although I like to watch film in a foreign language without any subtitles first, and then with subtitles in this language. But I understand quite much without subtitles, or, at the worst, understand the point of speech even when I cannot catch the exact words. If I understood only some words, it would be a little boring I think. )
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    you'll remember the words spoken in a live context
    I couldn't agree more.
    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Anything you particularly recommend?
    Find the series that you like in Russian and you'll get many such contexts. It is not necessary that the series will be Russian, dubbed ones will do perfectly. )
    If you have problems with both posting new messages and sending PMs, you can send an e-mail to the Forum Administrator here:
    http://masterrussian.net/sendmessage.php
    У меня что-то с почтой, на ЛС ответить не могу. (

  12. #12
    JackBoni
    Guest

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Всем большое спасибо за помощь. Ваши советы всегда так реальные. Спасибо, mudrets, за ссылку. Я думаю, я куплю книгу, потому что я часто не знаю, на который слог падает ударение в русском.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaya
    In Ukrainian stress is also not fixed, and as far as I know the same in Byelorussian
    The same... what? Here you need to specify a verb, Zaya. Although you may know exactly what you're talking about, it sounds strange in the second part of your sentence not to have another verb. It is partly to do with emphasising your point, I think.

    You could say "and as far as I know the same goes for/applies in Byelorussian. You can also say "and as far as I know it's the same in Byelorussian". I like the last two variants; the first one sounds slightly out of place in this context, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaya
    I just wanted to show that not any other Slavic language would do for saving the learner from this problem.
    That sounds ok at first glance, I think, although upon reading it a few times it does sound like there is something missing.

    I would write it as follows, with only two very small changes: I just wanted to show that not just any other Slavic language would do to save the learner from this problem.

    They're two very small changes which make it sound a little more natural, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    I'd recommend anything with russian subtitles.
    Спасибо, Ramil. In English the names of all languages and nationalities begin with a capital letter. So, it should be Russian subtitles.

    Джек

  13. #13
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,384
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Thanks for the corrections. The other variant was "the same situation is in Byelorussian."
    I like the last two variants
    OK. ) I'll remember them.
    Ваши советы всегда такие + полная форма прилагательного (or Ваши советы всегда так + краткая форма).
    «Реальный» здесь не подходит. Я даже не знаю, какое слово подобрать. Выбери сам :
    Вы всегда даете (действительно) стоящие советы.
    Вы всегда даете дельные советы.
    Вы всегда даете первоклассные советы.

    or even
    Ваши советы, как всегда, полезны.
    Вы всегда даете такие полезные советы.
    Ваши советы всегда так полезны.

    Despite the fact that "полезный" means "useful."
    If you have problems with both posting new messages and sending PMs, you can send an e-mail to the Forum Administrator here:
    http://masterrussian.net/sendmessage.php
    У меня что-то с почтой, на ЛС ответить не могу. (

  14. #14
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    СССР -> США
    Posts
    17,637
    Rep Power
    32

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Орфографический словарь русского языка (гласные под ударением - красные)
    http://alfavit.dljavseh.ru/alfavit/a.htm
    __________________________________________

    Толковый словарь русского языка (гласные под ударением выделены курсивом) - http://alfavit.dljavseh.ru/souz/a.htm
    __________________________________________


    Словарь ударений (электронная версия) - http://slovari.yandex.ru/dict/zarva

    "...Новый нормативный Словарь ударений содержит около 50 тысяч слов современного русского литературного языка, вызывающих трудности при определении места ударения. ..."

    Какую-то помощь этот словарь может оказать. (Почему-то многие слова в этом словаре мне незнакомы).

    Там же хорошая статья "Особенности русского ударения" - http://slovari.yandex.ru/dict/zarva/1003974
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



  15. #15
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,384
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Russian noun stress

    (гласные под ударением выделены курсивом)
    Также словари ударений есть на сайтах gramota.ru и gramma.ru:
    http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x&za ... 3%E5%ED%F2 (напротив слов «Русское словесное ударение» должна стоять галочка)
    http://www.gramma.ru/EXM/?id=4.20 (ударение обозначают прописные буквы)
    Но нужно помнить, что многие формально неправильные варианты сейчас воспринимаются носителями языка как нормальные, а многие формально правильные их скорее удивят (к слову «агент» это не относится))).
    If you have problems with both posting new messages and sending PMs, you can send an e-mail to the Forum Administrator here:
    http://masterrussian.net/sendmessage.php
    У меня что-то с почтой, на ЛС ответить не могу. (

  16. #16
    JackBoni
    Guest

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Всем спасибо большое за вашу помощь, и ссылки. Я куплю книгу и буду смореть на сайты, когда у меня есть трудности. Если вы хотите помощь с английским, давайте знать

    Джек

  17. #17
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Russland
    Posts
    9,882
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Всем спасибо большое за вашу помощь_ и ссылки. Я куплю книгу и посмотрю сайты (or загляну на сайты), когда у меня будут/возникнут трудности.
    In English you never use the future tense after the words "if", "when". In Russian, we do.
    So if you say in Russian "if I have", it means "if I have smth at the moment, now, at the present time, or usually". If you mean probability, in the future - use the future tense (not "бы"). See how very simple it is in Russian?

    Если вы хотите помощь с английским, давайте знать
    Это наше постоянное желание.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  18. #18
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    СССР -> США
    Posts
    17,637
    Rep Power
    32

    Re: Russian noun stress

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Всем спасибо большое за вашу помощь, и ссылки. Я куплю книгу и буду смореть на сайты, когда у меня есть трудности. Если вы хотите помощь с английским, давайте знать

    Джек
    Давай, давай, не ленись (и другие пусть не ленятся). Я думаю, нам не нужно, чтобы здесь мельтешили разные грамматические ошибки, то ли в русском, то ли в английском.
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



Similar Threads

  1. Russian Word Stress On Line (Paradigms) and more
    By chaika in forum Pronunciation, Speech & Accent
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: June 17th, 2015, 03:40 AM
  2. Help for people with problems on stress on russian words
    By SouthsideRMK in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: December 24th, 2009, 07:57 PM
  3. Help with noun cases
    By grapeape in forum Ukrainian
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: September 11th, 2005, 07:34 PM
  4. Agreement of adjectives with noun case
    By ctarychek in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: February 26th, 2005, 09:40 PM
  5. Do you need Russian texts with stress marks?
    By Tu-160 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: April 17th, 2004, 10:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary