Thread: NonRussian films (work in progress)

Originally Posted by rockzmom

why not subtitle the German into English if the Russian was subtitled into English?

German wasn't translated for film's target audience - Russian viewers, why should it have been translated for English speaking viewers? It would have distorted the perception of the film, wouldn't it? Also, it would have been unfair, or condescending, depending on how you look at it.


Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films. I'm surprised to find out that I didn't know what it is in English. It's "hands up!"

The large wall music box that is in the restaurant at the 3:25 mark in this scene. I have never seen one such as this before. Can anyone tell me anything about this? The history of these? If they are still made? The actual name of these things?

Apparently, they are called just that: disk music boxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_box
http://www.vincentfreemanantiques.com/disks.htm
http://www.themusicboxcompany.com/disk_music_boxes.htm

Originally Posted by E-learner

Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films.

What about "Гитлер капут"?

There's... what is it?.. a crowd
of people on the palace grounds!
So it's obvious: things are taking
A social turn, if I'm not mistaken!

I'm a folklore element,
I have got a document!
I can fly away from here
Any time, at any moment!

[video:3437eync]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5q7v1ic_rM[/video:3437eync]

Originally Posted by birubir

What about "Гитлер капут"?

Айн-цвай, полицай. Драй, фир, фюнф, зег, зибен, ахт, нойн... Битте шён, данке шён. Хальт! Цурюк! Прозит! Едем дас зайне, унтерменш! Их либе зи! Арбайт махт фрай! Гутен морген, гутен таг, либе дамен унд верте геррен! Аусвайс, гештальт унд психоаналитик. Ферштейн нихт! Дас ист фантастишь!

Кто-то не понял?

Originally Posted by birubir

There's... what is it?.. a crowd
of people on the palace grounds!
So it's obvious: things are taking
A social turn, if I'm not mistaken!

I'm a folklore element,
I have got a document!
I can fly away from here
Any time, at any moment!

BORIS IS IN THE HOUSE!

I am so very pleased that you accepted my offer to drop in and you even posted a video for us to watch!!

For those of you who do not know birubir, he is THE MAN, behind many of the videos that we watch or post from YouTube!
http://www.youtube.com/user/birubirFilms

Boris, I hope that you will visit often and let us know when you have found new films (or cartoons) that we should take a look at!!! I will also update my film list with the rest of the links for direct downloading from Yandex for parts 4-12 for 17 Moments of Spring. Thanks!

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

why not subtitle the German into English if the Russian was subtitled into English?

German wasn't translated for film's target audience - Russian viewers, why should it have been translated for English speaking viewers? It would have distorted the perception of the film, wouldn't it? Also, it would have been unfair, or condescending, depending on how you look at it.


Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films. I'm surprised to find out that I didn't know what it is in English. It's "hands up!"

Okay E-learner... maybe it is just because I have had a rough couple of days and it is also 93F here (what is that 33C for you?) but I am still just not getting this. So, I am not picking on you....

IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers... than why translate the Russian into English subtitles? Why have English subtitles at all?

I thought the target audience of this film WITH English subtitles would be someone like...say ME . Someone who wants to watch this series but who does NOT understand Russian.

I just thought it rather odd that of all the languages, German was the only one that did not have the subtitles to let the viewer know what the news reel was saying.

In the BIG picture, it really does not matter as it is only a propaganda reel, I understand... I just thought it odd and it stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

------
Now, about the information on the Music Boxes that you found....
If this economy ever turns around again and I have some disposable income... I might just get me one of these there thingamabobbers. Or at least start to look for one at a flea market or second hand store. I never knew they made these types of gizmos and they look just lovely!!!
Thank you again for finding the information for me!!!

Originally Posted by birubir

Originally Posted by E-learner

Incidentally, about the only German I know is "хенде хох!", and I believe every Russian knows at least as much from war films.

What about "Гитлер капут"?

"Капут" is Russian, as well as "kaput" is English.
Seriously, when I first heard it in a film I was surprised the German soldier seemed to understand it!

Everyone,

I have updated the film listing and at the bottom of the listing, I have now added CARTOONS!!!

The listing is back on page 13.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers...

The target audience of the original film, without English subtitles, were Russian speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. Russian speaking people do not understand what was said in German (unless they know German).

The target audience of the film with English subtitles were English speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. English speaking people do not understand what was said in German (unless they know German).

Russian speaking people and English speaking people are in the same boat. They are having the same experience. Shouldn't it be the ultimate goal of a translation?

Of course, it's just my understanding. I don't know what the translator was thinking about. Maybe they just didn't know German.

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

IF the target audience for the English subtitles of this film are Russian viewers...

The target audience of the original film, without English subtitles, were Russian speaking people. The German wasn't translated for them. Russian speaking people do not understand what was said in German (unless they know German).

Now, we're getting somewhere! So, when this was aired on TV back in 1973, none of the German was translated. That is an interesting effect and directorial choice. Is there more German to come in the rest of the parts? Remember, I am only on part 2.

Originally Posted by E-learner

Russian speaking people and English speaking people are in the same boat. They are having the same experience. Shouldn't it be the ultimate goal of a translation?

Agreed, 1,000%.

E-Learner... you deserve a medal for putting up with me this week! I have been like a tenacious pit-bull and I have noticed that no one dared even come to lend you a hand for fear of it being gnawed at. Thank you for not giving up on me.


E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released. Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

One of the classes I took in film school was about the entire colorization process as it was just starting back then. We were shown how the painstaking research was done to try and be exacting as possible and true to the color of the clothes, paint on the walls, hair and eye coloring, you name it... Personally, I am not a fan of it. I believe that Black and White films have a feel all to their own and were shot with the cinematographer and director's eye AS a black and white (and with a million shades of grays) a not with color in mind. Restoring a black and white and the soundtrack of the film I am all for, but not to colorize it.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released. Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

I've started a topic about it in the Culture and history subforum. It even had a poll attached.
Unfortunately, it's in Russian. But you could see users' opinions expressed via the poll.

http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=23&t=17253

Originally Posted by Ramil

Originally Posted by rockzmom

E-learner and others... I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released. Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

I've started a topic about it in the Culture and history subforum. It even had a poll attached.
Unfortunately, it's in Russian. But you could see users' opinions expressed via the poll.

http://masterrussian.net/mforum/view...p?f=23&t=17253

Ramil...if I could but give you a hug, I would! I took each line and put it into Google Translate!
And BappaBa ... the photos you posted as well were wonderful for me to be able to see! Thank you both!

I am on Part 3 right now and I may need to start a thread just with questions just about this film!
For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

I read on Wiki that in 2009, a remastered and colorized version of "17" was released. Has anyone seen this version of it and if so, what did you think of it?

I didn't see it, but I've read Russian Wiki and aforementioned thread, and I have some "information to be pondered over."

First, the picture. They transferred it from 4:3 to 16:9. They did it by cutting out chunks of the picture at the top and at the bottom. The result looks like this (these are just samples):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyePEfKM ... r_embedded
I don't like it. The picture looks cramped, "stifled", if I may say so. I'm sure I would feel the discomfort throughout the whole film. It may not be a big deal for somebody who has never seen the original, though. Maybe.
The colour looks good, I must admit. But does it really contribute something or just ruins the mood? One must watch a considerable part of the film to answer that.

Second, and this is what I'm even more wary about, the content. They shortened the film. According to Wiki, they stamped especially hard on the "lyrical" content, pauses, things like that.
You see, I never thought of this film as an "action" film and I'm afraid that trying to make it one they might just kill it, at least for me.


All in all, I'm not going to watch it. I would give it a try, out of curiosity, if all they had done was colour.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.

I was never able to get all the intricacies of the plot. Nor did I try too hard. All I was interested in were characters, their predicaments, good, or bad, luck, the nerve strain.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

I took each line and put it into Google Translate!

Do you know that you could put the URL there and get the whole page translated at once?

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

First, the picture. They transferred it from 4:3 to 16:9. They did it by cutting out chunks of the picture at the top and at the bottom.

Big deal. Sometimes they broadcast wide-screen movies transformed to 4:3 format. Faces look like this one in the vertical phase:
I would find the man who invented this idea and kill him against a wall

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

For starters...I need something like a "spy roster" cheat sheet (like a sports team lineup) to help me keep everyone straight.

I was never able to get all the intricacies of the plot.

To get them you should read all the novels about Maxim Isaev written by Yulian Semenov (one of my favorite writers btw ). Apropos, if you read the books you'll find that Maxim Maximovich Isaev is also a pseudonym of the main hero (he used it when he was a V.CH.K. spy in the White army during the Civil war) and his real name is Vsevolod Vladimirov. In the novel "Bomb for a chairman" Shtirlitz (he is a 67 y.o. professor of Moscow University there) writes some letter and signs:"professor Isaev (Vladimirov)". Reminds something? . Here is the list of the novels (I'm not sure it's complete, but at least these I have on my bookshelf and read):
Бриллианты для диктатуры пролетариата / Diamonds for the dictatorship of the proletariat
The action takes place in 1920 mostly in Revel (modern Tallin). The plot is about Civil war, white emigration and so.
Пароль не нужен / Password is not needed
1922, the final year of Civil war. Venue is Russian Far East.
Испанский вариант / Spanish version
1938, Burgos (Spain). Maxim Isaev already becomes Shtirlitz here and fights on a Franco's side as a real Nazi.
Альтернатива / Alternative
1940, about Hitler invasion into Yugoslavia.
Третья карта / The third card
1941, about Nazi invasion into Ukraine and so-called "national liberation movement" in Ukraine. "The third card" is Stepan Bandera (In the meanig "one of the three Nazi's puppets in Ukraine").
Майор Вихрь / Mayor Vikhr' (Vortex).
1944, Poland. Shtirlitz and some guys from Soviet military intelligence service saves Poland city of Khrakov from the destruction while Nazi retreat. It's strange that in the Soviet movie Shtirlitz, one of the main characters, was cut out from the plot.
Семнадцать мгновений весны /Seventeen Moments of Spring
1945, well... you know .
Приказано выжить / Ordered to survive
1945,The direct sequel of Seventeen Moments of Spring. Shtirlitz caught and tortured by Gestapo, Muller and Bormann runs from defeated Germany to Argentina.
Бомба для преседателя / Bomb for a chairman
1967, West Berlin. Neo-Nazis are trying to get a nuke. We meet some old fiends here along with Shtirlitz : Aysmann and Holltoff. Aysmann who looks rather honorable in Seventeen Moments of Spring becomes ultimate evil and one the main villians.
Although all these books were written during Soviet times and have a touch of Soviet propaganda, they still remains very exciting. Btw, Yulian Semenov was one of very few writers who was admitted to the KGB archives while wrote these novels and many of the documents wich he explored still remain top-secret.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

So I am back to watching 17 Moments of Spring!

Comment:
Why is it that in this clip while Hitler is watching the news...

It's not Hitler. It's Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Himmler

I'm watching first season of Sledge Hammer.
Trust me. I know what I am doing.