Thread: London terror attack, yo. :O

Originally Posted by Cyphyr

[ less moral than those like him who reject it.

Ah! I see the word moral has entered into things finally.
One of my favourite topics. So what is morality? Animals don't have it. Some people think that they have it. But who is to say what a moral is? Certainly not someone who is an accident from a puddle of slime. Why should I let him tell me. He could have just made them up. And my morals could tell me that I should thump you over the head with spiked club so I could steal your wife. But most of us instinctually know that that is wrong, why is that? So what makes his morals better than mine? Theory of Evolution tells me that my morals will ensure my survival.

The whole idea of morals must have come from somewhere else because survival of the fittest and morals don't seem to mix.

What theory of evolution got to do with moral? When it rains - is that moral or not?

Nature got no idea about morality, it just exists.

That's a very deep philosophical question DDT I think it is possible to believe in certain universal moral truths which are part of the fabric of the universe, if you like, and to say they have an external reality of their own. If you ask where did they come from? why are they there? that could well lead you to a belief in the existence of God. Morality is a difficult issue to figure out and is usually a large part of what religion is concerned with. But I would say you could look at it like this, morals are not hardwired into us as part of the design, we acquire the ability to appreciate and understand them once we reach a certain level of evolutionary development and start to form communities with complex social relationships. We become aware of them and need to live by them (to a certain degree anyway) in order for us to function within a society. Society wouldn't be possible if everyone behaved completely selfishly all the time. Animal brains haven't evolved to the point where they can understand these moral truths in the same way that they can't understand fundamental mathematical relationships and concepts that humans can.

I don't feel that belief in the theory of evolution and belief in universal moral truths are incompatiable. But I do feel that belief in moral truths and their value requires a kind of faith. In this respect, I suppose I am 'religious' even if I perhaps don't like to admit it

Originally Posted by saibot

Case and point: Evolution is a dumb, false idea, with no solid proof, that destroys the moral fabric of the world.

Just because some serial killers believed in the Theory of Evolution, it is blamed for destroying the moral fabric of the world?

Well, let's ban Islam then... oh and MTV! Heck, electricity is pretty bad too! And the whole theory of gravity? Nothing but a drag!

Originally Posted by DDT

The whole idea of morals must have come from somewhere else because survival of the fittest and morals don't seem to mix.

Agreed. Looking around us, there is no reason why we should be moral, or even polite. Yet those ideas are ingrained within us.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Originally Posted by saibot

Case and point: Evolution is a dumb, false idea, with no solid proof, that destroys the moral fabric of the world.

Just because some serial killers believed in the Theory of Evolution, it is blamed for destroying the moral fabric of the world?

Well, let's ban Islam then... oh and MTV! Heck, electricity is pretty bad too! And the whole theory of gravity? Nothing but a drag!

- Yes, to fix that problem we need to execute all blacks and byciclists.
- Why byciclists?
- I knew that there would be no questions about blacks.

kinda joke.

Originally Posted by Biancca

Originally Posted by DDT

The whole idea of morals must have come from somewhere else because survival of the fittest and morals don't seem to mix.

Agreed. Looking around us, there is no reason why we should be moral, or even polite. Yet those ideas are ingrained within us.

that is a solid proof agains Evolution.

Originally Posted by Pioner

Originally Posted by Biancca

Originally Posted by DDT

The whole idea of morals must have come from somewhere else because survival of the fittest and morals don't seem to mix.

Agreed. Looking around us, there is no reason why we should be moral, or even polite. Yet those ideas are ingrained within us.

that is a solid proof agains Evolution.

Also agree.

The only thing that I can concede to Creationism, just because it is impossible to disprove, is this:

What if the world WAS create 4000 years ago, WITH all the fossiles and things already put in Earth? There is no way to disprove that. Evolution would be nothing but a fun puzzle buddy God put for us to solve!

Originally Posted by Biancca

Originally Posted by Pioner

Originally Posted by Biancca

Originally Posted by DDT

The whole idea of morals must have come from somewhere else because survival of the fittest and morals don't seem to mix.

Agreed. Looking around us, there is no reason why we should be moral, or even polite. Yet those ideas are ingrained within us.

that is a solid proof agains Evolution.

Also agree.

Perhaps. Or perhaps morals result from the need for morals to allow social communities to exist and flourish, which enables a much higher chance of survival for all involved...rather than "every man for himself."

Wolfpacks, horse-herds, etc. All have social rules, similar to "morals" (traditions/instincts of social conduct) for their group that allows them to exist together, and not kill each other.

Strength in numbers.

The trouble with saying that morals are just part of the evolutional process is that the first early man to have morals would have been "marked for death".

Oh, I agree...but if two men were cooperating together, then they could succeed against one man who was an enemy. Most likely, socialization began with a man and woman together, with instincts.

I think it is reasonable to think that at some point 2 men realized that cooperating they could take down a dangerous animal, for food and safety.

Those humans that developed an instinct for socialization would naturally have a much higher chance of survival, and would pass-on these instincts...over the "lone wolf" human who would tend to die...hence there was a natural evolution of human socialization and community.

Excellent rational Dobry. But actually all of the very first attempts at life would have died right away anyway because they would not have been developed enough to reproduce let alone develope morals.

The thing I love about this here interweb thingy, is that I can read all the blithering nonsense written by bone-headed creationists and their ilk (any other kind of Flat-Earther really) and get a good laugh out of it, and yet I don't have to become agressive or impolite in order to dismiss them as I would have to do in meat-space (such as on the three or four days a year when I am randomly visited by deeply ill-advised Mormons). In here, one click of a button and oof:, they are gone from my conciousness along with their staw men and circular (il)logic. In here, I only have to get agressive or impolite for personal amusement!

If that isn't proof that there is a God somewhere, I don't know what is.

Note to self: Send two guys on bicycles wearing white shirts to cranky ol' Scotcher's house.

I do not think that moral is hardcoded into us. And a single man with a moral will not survive, that is correct. But a tribe which is moral, cooparating, helping one another does have a huge advantage of individualist stuck together. Biological evolution may stop there, but cultural evolution started. And here we are, that developed. Because of culture and moral.

So we're getting up to cultural evolution?
YAY! It's almost over!

Umm... Abortion is COOL! MORE ABORTION!

That should get things started again!

Actually I believe in individual choice on the abortion issue. This is where me and conservatives part ways.

What? Why?