Thread: London terror attack, yo. :O

Thank both of you very much , it works.
I put some pictures of knowadays Persian girls. They have to wear scarf but they don't like it ,so they wear it like this

Scarf or not, those girls are "hot".
I think it is unfortunate that these women can not chose for themselves what to wear.


Biancca looks good in a scarf!

Originally Posted by DDT

Biancca looks good in a scarf!

Thanks DDT. But I think I look better without it.

I was wondering...what the heck are those??? they are drums....

Originally Posted by Dobry

This current thread is hitting too close to home now.

My niece and her husband, both active career U.S. Army, have just received orders for duty stations in Iraq. They both are sweet and gentle people.

I truly hope that "True Arab" does not seriously want harm to come to U.S. soldiers.

Well, it's a war, isn't it? And they are soldiers. It would be really surprising if their enemy didn't want harm to come to them.

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Dobry

This current thread is hitting too close to home now.

My niece and her husband, both active career U.S. Army, have just received orders for duty stations in Iraq. They both are sweet and gentle people.

I truly hope that "True Arab" does not seriously want harm to come to U.S. soldiers.

Well, it's a war, isn't it? And they are soldiers. It would be really surprising if their enemy didn't want harm to come to them.

Ah, tak...

Vesh, are you classifying "True Arab" as an "enemy" of the U.S.??...against the U.S.??!!

Be careful with words...they are important.

Originally Posted by Rosa Anna

I was wondering...what the heck are those??? they are drums....

It's <daf> , it's like drum but with other sound . unfortunately I can't write its sound .

Originally Posted by Dobry

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Dobry

This current thread is hitting too close to home now.

My niece and her husband, both active career U.S. Army, have just received orders for duty stations in Iraq. They both are sweet and gentle people.

I truly hope that "True Arab" does not seriously want harm to come to U.S. soldiers.

Well, it's a war, isn't it? And they are soldiers. It would be really surprising if their enemy didn't want harm to come to them.

Ah, tak...

Vesh, are you classifying "True Arab" as an "enemy" of the U.S.??...against the U.S.??!!

Be careful with words...they are important.

Угу. Так.

Him personally? Don't know. It seems so, but I can't be sure. But ideology he represents... Definitely.

And he does have a point. Unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Dobry

Originally Posted by Vesh

Originally Posted by Dobry

This current thread is hitting too close to home now.

My niece and her husband, both active career U.S. Army, have just received orders for duty stations in Iraq. They both are sweet and gentle people.

I truly hope that "True Arab" does not seriously want harm to come to U.S. soldiers.

Well, it's a war, isn't it? And they are soldiers. It would be really surprising if their enemy didn't want harm to come to them.

Ah, tak...

Vesh, are you classifying "True Arab" as an "enemy" of the U.S.??...against the U.S.??!!

Be careful with words...they are important.

Угу. Так.

Him personally? Don't know. It seems so, but I can't be sure. But ideology he represents... Definitely.

And he does have a point. Unfortunately.

I hope no harm comes to your neice and her husband.
But they are soldiers, so...

Originally Posted by Prince of Persia

Hi DDT ,
As I told you before it’s very surprising for me that you have these detailed information about Islam and now Ayatollah Khumeini ( do you know the meaning of Ayatollah , that means sign of God ) because most of lay people don’t have these information that you have .
According to Islamic rule girls can marry at the age of 9 , I don’t know whether this is happening in other Islamic countries or not , but in my country I’ve never heard that a girl married at this age. Maybe in some rural places girls marry at very young ages , for example 13-14 but in cities , especially in big cities such as Tehran( 10milion population ) girls marry at age of 20-30 ( 22 is average age of marriage for Iranian girls and 27 is for men). My grandmother got married when she was 14 (60 years ago ) , my mother got married when she was 19 (29 years ago ) , my sister is 22 years old now and she is still single .
According to Islamic rule men can have 2,3 or 4 official wives and as many as they like have sighe( non-official wives ) , some Arabs say Iranians are not Muslim because they don’t have several women and they don’t obey Ghoran’s order ( Surah Nesa ) .
This is not correct because in Islam if you do not have several wives you will not be considered non muslims and if there is some arabs saying this -although I do not believe this - they do not know real Islam. Regarding, polygamy in Islam, it is not obligatory and it is highly restricted by two golden conditions:
1. Power: here we mean both financial situation of the man and the sexual ability to have more than one wife.
2. the just and fair behaviour toward his wives.
if these two conditions are not valid, a muslim is not allowed to have more than one wife.
Polygamy in Islam has solved several problems that is endangering other societies that do not allow polygamy such as:
Adultery.
encreased number of widows who are suffering a lot in these societies and are crating many problems.
fullfilling the sexual needs of some men in a legal way instead of commiting adultery.
in some socities and religions, when a man has a wife that is not able to have babies he can not mary another one to have his own right to have babies. In Islam polygamy solved this.
there aree several advantages for polygamy and in Islam it is not an arbirtrary well it is a will controlled mean to protect community.

Our nationality and our religions are against each other , we became Muslim by power of sword not by will , so there is a permanent conflict between Iranian nationalists and Iranian religious men .
this is exteremly incorrect, and the simplest answer to your claim is why do we still have Zoroastrians, jews and other religions in Iran. were they so strong or muslims did not want them to become muslims?
Islam has spread all over the world because of its strength, its peaceful meesage, its fairness, its equality, its justice. No one can deny that Indonesian embraced Islam because of the great way Muslim traders coming from Yemen deal with them. In spain, the muslims ruled the country for 800 years and they did not force Chrestians to convert to Islam nor Jews.?
My friend, when you are talking about religions you should be fair and subjective.I want to put some pictures here but I can't , would someone please tell me how can I do that (those pictures are in my computer for example this is a path D:\Documents and Settings\Arash\My Documents\My Pictures\iran\zanan\mode193br.jpg )

Salam a true arab,
Thanks for your reply.
As you may know about 3 million arabs live in south west of Iran I heard from them(I lived 8 years there) that Iranians aren't true muslim because they don't have several women . Most of them (Iranian arabs) are uneducated and poor but most of them have several women (they don't care about those 2 Golden conditions).
You wrote :<this is exteremly incorrect, and the simplest answer to your claim is why do we still have Zoroastrians, jews and other religions in Iran. were they so strong or muslims did not want them to become muslims?>
Yes , when muslims came to Iran they didn't oblige Christians and Jews to change their religion because in Islam Christianity and Jewish has been accepted as a theism religions but Allah didn't know that Zoroastrianism is another theism religion too . Muslims accused Iranians worshiping fire , they didn't know that Iranians pay respect to fire ( like cross for Christians) not worship it , so muslims invaded Iran , killed Iranians , raped Iranians women , took thousands Iranian girls to Mecca and Medina to rape them as a sexual slave , took thousands Iranian boys to slave Muslims ( what a peaceful religion!!) to teach us theism!!
In this condition Zoroastrians had 4 choices
1- not change their religion , fight with peaceful muslims , being killed , loosing their wives , their daughters , their boys , their having.
2- Leaving their country ( more than 100.000 Iranians choose this choice and went to India , Queen (Freddie Mercury), American singer was one of them) .
3- not change their religion but pay jaziyeh ( money which non-muslim must pay to muslim government to have right of living)
Nowadays Zoroastrians are from these group
4- change their religion and protect themselves and their family from peaceful muslims .
I admit that some countries in east Asia or Africa became muslim by will but we Iranians became muslim by power of sword not will . If arabs hadn't invaded Iran , we never had became muslim , because we had own religion and we didn't need Islam .
I say it one more time there is permanent conflict between Iranian nationalists and Iranian religious men.
I love my country So I hate Islam , please tell me how can I love my country and Islam at the same time?

Originally Posted by a true arab

Islam has spread all over the world because of its strength, its peaceful meesage, its fairness, its equality, its justice.

Oh really? That statement just flies in the face of history. It is not worth the time to respond to. Tell that to all widows made by Muslim warriors invading India and Spain and even France. Muslims under Abd ar-Rahman crushed Duke Eudo in battle, sacked the city of Bordeaux and burned the cathedral at Poitiers.

Originally Posted by a true arab

No one can deny that Indonesian embraced Islam because of the great way Muslim traders coming from Yemen deal with them.

While the Islamic conquest of the Pasisir was relatively peaceful, military campaigns had to be launched against the agrarian kingdoms. In the beginning of the sixteenth century, Majapahit, the last remaining one, was defeated by the sultanates of Demak and Surabaya. Islam could then spread inland, where it has since remained deeply implanted, especially in the Sunda region.

The archipelago was not invaded by outsiders and forcibly converted. Yet states that had converted to Islam often waged war against those that adhered to the older, Hindu-Buddhist traditions.

Originally Posted by a true arab

In spain, the muslims ruled the country for 800 years and they did not force Chrestians to convert to Islam nor Jews.?

This does not alter the fact that Arab armies still invaded Spain in 711.

As Prince of Persia has stated Muslims may not have killed all Christians and Jews when they conquered knew territory but they did treat those who survived in a terrible manner. The thing is that in much of Islam things have not changed.
Christian churches are still being attacked and the people murdered in the Islamic world today.
http://www.persecution.net/news/indonesia35.html
http://www.persecution.net/news/indonesia39.html
http://www.persecution.net/news/indonesia28.html

Originally Posted by Prince of Persia

Salam a true arab,
Thanks for your reply.
As you may know about 3 million arabs live in south west of Iran I heard from them(I lived 8 years there) that Iranians aren't true muslim because they don't have several women . Most of them (Iranian arabs) are uneducated and poor but most of them have several women (they don't care about those 2 Golden conditions).
You wrote :<this is exteremly incorrect, and the simplest answer to your claim is why do we still have Zoroastrians, jews and other religions in Iran. were they so strong or muslims did not want them to become muslims?>
Yes , when muslims came to Iran they didn't oblige Christians and Jews to change their religion because in Islam Christianity and Jewish has been accepted as a theism religions but Allah didn't know that Zoroastrianism is another theism religion too . Muslims accused Iranians worshiping fire , they didn't know that Iranians pay respect to fire ( like cross for Christians) not worship it , so muslims invaded Iran , killed Iranians , raped Iranians women , took thousands Iranian girls to Mecca and Medina to rape them as a sexual slave , took thousands Iranian boys to slave Muslims ( what a peaceful religion!!) to teach us theism!!
In this condition Zoroastrians had 4 choices
1- not change their religion , fight with peaceful muslims , being killed , loosing their wives , their daughters , their boys , their having.
2- Leaving their country ( more than 100.000 Iranians choose this choice and went to India , Queen (Freddie Mercury), American singer was one of them) .
3- not change their religion but pay jaziyeh ( money which non-muslim must pay to muslim government to have right of living)
Nowadays Zoroastrians are from these group
4- change their religion and protect themselves and their family from peaceful muslims .
I admit that some countries in east Asia or Africa became muslim by will but we Iranians became muslim by power of sword not will . If arabs hadn't invaded Iran , we never had became muslim , because we had own religion and we didn't need Islam .
I say it one more time there is permanent conflict between Iranian nationalists and Iranian religious men.
I love my country So I hate Islam , please tell me how can I love my country and Islam at the same time?

Princeofpersia:

You do not have to love Islam and I did not ask you to do so.
The spread of Islam in Iran was not because of the sword. It was a reslut of the great morality of Islam. Regarding slavery, the Persian, The Romans, The Greeks, and most of Great nations practised it but in Islam whenm a slave embraces Islam he will beee free and this dioes not happen in other religions. Slavery is a consequence of wars in old history and this slavery has built the New civilized world USA, South America. I am not with Salvery but it is something that has been practised by several nations and you can not blame muslims for doing it.
Regarding, worshipping Fire it is not accusation it is a real fact, it is not respect dued as you are saying, it is worshipping, prostrating in front of it. etc> which are clear signs of real worshipping.

you said:
but we Iranians became muslim by power of sword not will . If arabs hadn't invaded Iran , we never had became muslim , because we had own religion and we didn't need Islam .

At that time, Iran was the second greatest Dynasty in the world. It was extremely advanced in science, weapons, number of soldiers than muslims. Can you tell me why did Islam defeat it and why those proud Iranians embraced Islam? They could have fled to other countries ?
the real answer is that:

The rise of Islam as a religion replacing Zoroastrianism is one of the greatest events in world history.
Various reasons can be adduced for the success of this invasion: It was more spiritual than material; the birth of a crusading religion in Arabia coincided with the exhaustion of a dynasty in Iran; Islam was democratic while Zoroastrianism was exclusive and feudal; four centuries of independence under autocratic rule had sapped initiative and reduced the will to resist. But none of these considerations fully explain the completeness with which Iran apparently succumbed to Islam. Islam soon became the dominant religion in Iran

[quote=DDT]

Originally Posted by a true arab

Islam has spread all over the world because of its strength, its peaceful meesage, its fairness, its equality, its justice.

Oh really? That statement just flies in the face of history. It is not worth the time to respond to. Tell that to all widows made by Muslim warriors invading India and Spain and even France. Muslims under Abd ar-Rahman crushed Duke Eudo in battle, sacked the city of Bordeaux and burned the cathedral at Poitiers.
I think you are so racist and extreme that you are thinking that Islam is the worst religion over the the earth not withstanding that it has more than billion followers. Regarding widows in India , Spain, France, it is so smart of you that you think muslims have made them so. Please, think about crusaders, Feudal Tyrants, Plagues, civil wars. By the way, in Islam killing children, women, animals, cutting trees, or destroying churches and worshipping places are extremely prohibited.[quote="a true arab":19c35u67]
No one can deny that Indonesian embraced Islam because of the great way Muslim traders coming from Yemen deal with them.[/quote]
While the Islamic conquest of the Pasisir was relatively peaceful, military campaigns had to be launched against the agrarian kingdoms. In the beginning of the sixteenth century, Majapahit, the last remaining one, was defeated by the sultanates of Demak and Surabaya. Islam could then spread inland, where it has since remained deeply implanted, especially in the Sunda region.
[color=red]You are faintly trying to prove that Islam is a religion that spread by sword and force!!!! OK.. DDT: what about nowadyas, Hundreds of AMericans, Europeans are embracing Islam not withstanding the fiecre MEdia war against Islam in your countries!
Islam is the second religion in UK,
Islam is the second religion in France.
Can you subjectively understand what are their reasons.?
Are Muslims forcing them?[/color]

The archipelago was not invaded by outsiders and forcibly converted. Yet states that had converted to Islam often waged war against those that adhered to the older, Hindu-Buddhist traditions.


[quote=a true arab]
In spain, the muslims ruled the country for 800 years and they did not force Chrestians to convert to Islam nor Jews.?
[/quote] This does not alter the fact that Arab armies still invaded Spain in 711.

As Prince of Persia has stated Muslims may not have killed all Christians and Jews when they conquered knew territory but they did treat those who survived in a terrible manner. The thing is that in much of Islam things have not changed.
Christian churches are still being attacked and the people murdered in the Islamic world today.
[color=red]This is not true and you can read the writings of objective Eorpean Historians to have a clear image. During the great history of Islamic culture and with the great conquests Muslims have done the number of cuasualtiies is so small compared with other great civilized nations. Specially, the WWI and WWII. [/color]http://www.persecution.net/news/indonesia35.html
[url="http://www.persecution.net/news/indonesia39.html"]http://www.persecution.net/news/indonesia39.html[/url]
http://www.persecution.net/news/indonesia28.html[/quote:19c35u67]

The spread of Islam in Iran was not because of the sword. It was a reslut of the great morality of Islam. Regarding slavery, the Persian, The Romans, The Greeks, and most of Great nations practised it but in Islam whenm a slave embraces Islam he will beee free and this dioes not happen in other religions
Do you know about Ghadessiye war (happened between Iranians and Arabs in north of Kuwait in 1400 years ago) and Nahavand war (in nowadays Iran ) , they were war not morality exercise . With these two wars Arabs could come to Iran and make people Muslim not by speeches and teachings . If really the aim of Muslim was spreading Islam with peace they could send some Muslim groups to advertise Islam in Iran , like other religions . In those days there were many Christians , Jews , Mazdakian , Manavian and even Buddhists in Iran . Why Muslims sent army to Iran but not messengers ?
Did Christianity spread by wars or did it Buddhism ? In the world we have three international religions , Christianity , Islam and Buddhism , but it was only Islam that spread with wars and blood , so it is a shame for Islam and Arabs.
In Iran there weren’t any slaves before Islam , of course there were some Romans or Greek war prisoner but not any slave , Do you know Takht-e Jamshid is the first and only ancient memorial ( 2500 years old ) which not built by slaves but by workers . In 2500 years ago Cyrus the great freed all slaves and abandoned slavery in Iran but 1000 years later peaceful Muslims made thousands of Iranians slave’s of Arabs .

Regarding, worshipping Fire it is not accusation it is a real fact, it is not respect dued as you are saying, it is worshipping, prostrating in front of it. etc> which are clear signs of real worshipping.

Have you ever read Avesta (sanctified book of Zoroastrians ) or have you ever spoken to a Zoroastrian ? First read Avesta , speak to a Zoroastrian , then make decision . That was the same fault that your ancestors did about Zoroastrians .
AhuraMazda is the name of Zoroastrian God , Ahriman is the name of Devil , but Arabs thought that all the people of the world must say Allah to their Gods . Fire is the Symbol of clearness and brightness in Zoroastrian so Zoroastrians pay respect to it , even now in some rituals they make fire and pay respect to it , but fortunately in these days nobody comes from another country and kill them for doing this . Only Ahuramazda is being worshiped in Zoroastrians not fire , but because arabs didn’t know that they named Iranians as fireworshiper and killed them , what a wise God!

At that time, Iran was the second greatest Dynasty in the world. It was extremely advanced in science, weapons, number of soldiers than muslims. Can you tell me why did Islam defeat it and why those proud Iranians embraced Islam? They could have fled to other countries ?

At the time of Alexander , Iran was the greatest country in the world but Alexander with very smaller army could defeat Iran , At the time of Mongols , Monguls were very underdeveloped but they defeat Iran . Victories in the wars don’t prove that Islam is a good a peaceful religion . Was Alexander a Muslim ,or Mongols were Muslims ? .

They could have fled to other countries ? !!!!

What a great Idea !!
Do you want to say that now Iraqis love Americans and love Christianity that don’t flee from their own country .

The rise of Islam as a religion replacing Zoroastrianism is one of the greatest events in world history.

I don’t agree with you , I think it was the worst event that happened in all history , I think if arabs didn’t defeat us Ghadessiye war , now we’d have a better world , if Islam didn’t spread on the world and remained in Saudi Arabia , now we’d have a better world .

<daf>= "daf" http://www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/daf.htm


Sorry prince_of_persia, when I see <> it usually means somebody has mistyped an emotion.

I understand now that you were actually giving me the name of the drum.
Thanks!

I do not like long debates specially those in which each party try to be the only correct party.

regarding, The Isalmic conquest of Iran, I know it as it is part of my Islamic history. I know Qadisiyah and , Nahawand " Nahavand". Also, I know that Muslims did not force Persians to embrace Islam please check this Non muslim link:
http://www.countriesquest.com/middle...an/history.htm
"From the time of Islamic conquest, Iranians gradually converted to Islam. Most had previously followed Zoroastrianism, the official state religion under the Sassanid dynasty, but minority groups had practiced Christianity or Judaism. "

Regarding, the comparison of the war between Alexander and Sassanians with the Islamic conquest. This is extremely unfair and non logic. Alexander did not have any strong Impact on Persians. He defeated them and went home. But Arab Muslims defeated Persians with a great message of a new religion that does not deal with Persians as Kings and low classes " Poor and humiliated people" and as a result the Persian nation chose this new religion and they changed their life style in a drammatic way to be part of this new great Islamic nation. You can not deny the role of Muslims and Arabs in saving the Persian literature. Also, the Persian language uses the Arab scripts. Muslims took the good practices of Persian state and they apply it in their Islamic Empire. "Dawaween" On the other hand, they rejected practices that contradict with Islam.
So Islamic conquest was military, religious, and cultural conquest not like Alexander. My Friend, Be fair.
you said:

I don’t agree with you , I think it was the worst event that happened in all history , I think if arabs didn’t defeat us Ghadessiye war , now we’d have a better world , if Islam didn’t spread on the world and remained in Saudi Arabia , now we’d have a better world .

These are just day dreaming wishes. You can not prove it. And by the way, all these technologies nad civilizations of nowadays would not be existing if Muslim scholars spread the science to western nations through Andalucia " Spain"
Please, read history with an objective look.

My regards to all.

Originally Posted by a true arab

These are just day dreaming wishes. You can not prove it. And by the way, all these technologies nad civilizations of nowadays would not be existing if Muslim scholars spread the science to western nations through Andalucia " Spain"
Please, read history with an objective look.

My regards to all.

It is strange how the Muslim world still boast, "Muslim scholars spread the science", which was a 1,000 years ago. They have done absolutly nothing since then while the rest of the world has supassed them 100 fold. Take a look at any country where the people are oppressed by this religion. You will find nothing but the poorest conditions for the masses and a few wealthy people living in luxury. How many people are saying, "Hmm, I think i'm gonna move me and the family to Yemen, for a better life"?