Thread: London terror attack, yo. :O

I don't believe that life starts at conception. There is nothing proving this in scripture and I have heard all the arguments and read all the verses. I think it is just more "Popery".
If it did then all miscarriages and aborted fetus's would have a free ticket into heaven. If that was the case then Christians should rejoyce at abortion clinics instead of picketing them.

There probably should be some rectrictions on late term abortions but in reality it should be a womans choice. I believe that it is always better to save the life of the mother and abort the child. The mother especially needs to live for the sake of her other kids.

I agree. A woman should have the right to do whatever she wants to her body.

But last time I checked, the baby's body wasn't "hers".

If we can kill it before it's born, why not after?

I think women should be able to kill their children all the way up to the 18th birthday!

Let's make it fair!

Who's with me?

Well, the issue is when does the baby be considered a person and should be protected. Does a impregnated cell count as a baby? A person? Is it not part of the womans body at that point?

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Well, the issue is when does the baby be considered a person and should be protected. Does a impregnated cell count as a baby? A person? Is it not part of the womans body at that point?

Well I think a zygote is considered a living individual.

Is it alive? Of course it is. The sperm (hehe, god im immature) is alive. The egg is alive. There is life througout.

Is it an individual? Of course. 23 chromosomes from mommy, 23 from daddy. It's not quite mommy, and it's not quite daddy. It's something...else...something...unique.

Sure, it's living inside of mom, but a separate entity all the same.

It happens that zigota start to develop, then mother's body decides that this zigota is worthless and it getting absorbed by mother's body. Should we consider the mother to be a murderer and a cannibal?

...if she eats it I guess she's a cannibal.....

(*secretly giving himself a high five for managing to rekindle the argument!

If the sperm is life and the egg is life, people who mastrubate should be locked forever. Massmurders!

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

(*secretly giving himself a high five for managing to rekindle the argument!

If the sperm is life and the egg is life, people who mastrubate should be locked forever. Massmurders!

Well, then every guy is a murderer at one point. Even if you are [immaturity] *hehe* having sex *giggle* [/immaturity] to PRODUCE a child, only one of the [immaturity] *holds back tears of laughter* SPERM *hahaha* [/immaturity] gets the job done. The rest die!

So your point is what? That sperm killing is fine. But if sperm and egg comes together for coffee, it should be protected by law?

My point is....

I can't say sperm without laughing. Maybe I should go back to 7th grade....

Cool, we're up to abortion issues now.

Wake me up when we get to GM crops.

Originally Posted by saibot

...if she eats it I guess she's a cannibal.....

wow, I thought that all women a sinners, but now I have prove for that. It happens with each woman. Now I understan why muslims are right about women, not given them Equal Rites.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/war-on-te ... 89118.html

Ciao
I noticed that most of the replies try to connect these an acceptable so called terrorist explosions to Isalm and Muslims. This is a clear extreme racism against Islam. There are hundredrs of Christian, Jewish, Bhudist groups of different nationalities that do thing worse than what happened in London. Jewish terrorists killed peaceful worshipping people in AL-Haram Al-Ibrahimi, Basque are killing innocent people in Spain, Russian soldiers are killing and massacring whole villages in chechnya, Amercians are killling armleess people in Afghansistan, and Irak every day, they are bombarding villages and they are not terrorists. British soldiers are killing people in Irak, etc. and no one dare to say "Christian Terrorism or Jewish Terrorism". If he said such thing, he will be an extreme or he will be claimed to be antisemitic " By the way we are more semitic than Jews " Great world full of fairness and justice.
In my own point oif view and as a Muslim I do not accept what happened in London. That is because Islam does not allow killing innocent people even if they are noon muslims.
I think what happened in London is a natural consequence of what the stupid British policy is doing in the Islamic world. The British nad the Americans think that they can apply there principles and cultural codes to the Islamic world. They think that their own version of freedom is the best one for all the world. But they failed in all there efforts. Islamic culture is an old and strong culture from which the Euroopeans learned a lot. When British are acting against an enormous population of muslims in the world, when, they are helping Zionism in Arabian occupied Palestine, they should expect daily explosions.
What have been taken by force will be taken back by force.

My advice to the Western world is to take their barbarian soldiers back home to avoid more of these attacks. As we are seeing USA and UK with teir most advanced weapons and technologies are having a lot of troubles with Afghan and Iraki resistance. They should think about negotiaitons in stead of playing the role of Tyrant who will be soon defeated by the brave Afghan and Iraki resistants.

Originally Posted by a true arab

They should think about negotiaitons in stead of playing the role of Tyrant who will be soon defeated by the brave Afghan and Iraki resistants.

Brave?

What is it with this thread?? Am I ever going to escape from its grasp

True Arab, I don't think most of the replies tried to connect the terrorist attacks directly to Islam and Muslims. I think a majority of the replies were defending Islam (well, actually a majority of the replies were probably concerned with everything and anything other than what the thread was originally about, but that's another story )

I think the US and its allies have seriously messed up things and made a bad situation worse by invading Iraq. But I don't think it was intended as a war against Muslims although sadly it might appear like that now in Muslim eyes. Also, I find it hard to see the Iraqi insurgents as brave resistance fighters. It seems to me, a huge number of their attacks are deliberately aimed at murdering as many innocent Iraqi civilians as they can. There doesn't seem to anything noble or admirable about that. Many of these groups seem intent on provoking a bloody civil war between Sunni and Shia to create as much chaos as possible with the hope of driving the Americans out. That might achieve its objective but at what cost? both for the people of Iraq and for everyone else in the region.

As regards Palestine, I think Muslim anger at the suffering and treatment of the Palestininans is justified. Most people in Europe understand what the Israeli government is doing in the West Bank: they want the land but they don't want the people. They continue to grab more land to build ever bigger settlements while leaving the Palestinians without a state and without a voice. Unfortunately the media in the US tend to see things only from the Israeli perspective. You have to ask though, what have the suicide bombings by Hamas and the other groups achieved? They have succeeded in killing hundreds of innocent Israeli civilians and hardening public opinion there against compromise and strengthening Sharon's hand. Similarly, in the States, a media which is already sympathetic to Israel is not likely to change its position while both countries are under threat from suicide attacks. At the end of the day, if it's true that Arabs will not be beaten into submission, then it's also true for Israelis, Americans and everyone else. There has to be a better understanding of everyone's position and a more considered approach to dealing with the conflicts than just brute force.

Again, it's not black and white, there's right and wrong on all sides. But it's probably misunderstandings more than anything else that drive the conflict.

Originally Posted by a true arab

[they should expect daily explosions.
What have been taken by force will be taken back by force.

This is the typical Muslim response. They see everything as a threat to their religion. They tell us that they themselves would never blow up people on a bus or pizza parlour but that we should expect to be mutilated by nails bombs by other Muslims. But in no way is this connected to Islam. Duh? (scratches head)

Originally Posted by a true arab

In my own point oif view and as a Muslim I do not accept what happened in London. That is because Islam does not allow killing innocent people even if they are noon muslims.

You had better read all of my posts again, True Arab because I am tired of putting up the historical facts about Mr Mohammed and the pathetic example that he set for Muslims to follow. He was a liar, murderer, a rapist (of non-Muslims, that is, oh, and except for that 9 year old) and a child-molester. Sorry, but I'd call a 58 year old man asking his friend if he can marry his 7 year old daughter a "child molester". Wouldn't you? And you are going to take the word of this man that that you should pray towards Jerusalem? Somehow I think you have been hoodwinked and now Muslims have the whole world in turmoil over anywhere that Mohammed might have set his precious little toes.

And by the way nobody took Palestine away from Arabs by force.
Firstly Arabs rejected the mandate in 1948.
Then after Arabs attacked peaceful Jewish settlements with 7 armies and were defeated, Arabs were offered the Palestinian lands again, which they again rejected because they want ALL of Israel.The fact is the entire country of Jordan was set aside for Palestinians.

The Arab armies told all Arabs living west of the Jordan to flee out of Israel and Palestine territory while the Armies destroyed all the Jews. They were told that they would be able to return after the battle and take the dead Jews posessions and homes for themselves. That is why we have refugee camps today.


The fact is that no one was really interested in Palestine until after the Jews there in the late 1800's started fixing up the land on order to make it productive and Arabs started to go there in order to find employment.

I suggest that you look and study the maps.
http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Originally Posted by a true arab

Ciao
I noticed that most of the replies try to connect these an acceptable so called terrorist explosions to Isalm and Muslims. This is a clear extreme racism against Islam.

True Arab,

Please calmly, and rationally read the whole thread. You are wrong in your conclusions about this thread. And personally, I would request that you use normal black-lettering, and not strong red-lettering. I consider red-lettering the same as 'SHOUTING' in a post, and I consider it antagonistic. There has been little anti-Islam feeling here, and what there is has been calmly and rationally presented. I think most of us in our thoughts, and in this post, have clearly separated Islam from Terrorism. The tone of your post is very antagonistic.

What I cannot figure out is whether you are sincere...or are a "post-troll". I think you may be "trolling", trying to incite anger where there is no anger.

My 2 kopeks.

Yet again DDT, your sources are biased and misleading. They also show a deep ignorance of Arab culture and history to try and say that Palestinians can just live in any 'Arab' country and have no right to live in Palestine. The only thing that I would agree with is that the Arabs should have accepted the U.N. Partition Plan in 1947 and after losing the subsequent war should have made peace with Israel and accepted its existence. But for Israel's own sake as much as for the Palestinians it should have prevented mass settlement in the territories after the 1967 war and retained them intact as 'bargaining chips' until a comprehensive peace settlement could be reached. Their current position makes no sense, they're trying to incorporate the territories into their own state while avoiding giving Palestinians citizenship or voting rights within that state. Of course, there are those on the political right in Israel who advocate ethnic cleansing of the territories to make way for further expansion. But the most likely outcome will be the creation of fragmented 'homelands' or ghettos where Palestinians will have nominal 'sovereignty' while Israel continues its settlement program.

Here DDT, take a look at these links and you might actually learn something. It's from a group within Israel itself, not the kind of bigoted biased garbage you keep posting.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Settlements/
http://www.btselem.org/English/Maps/Index.asp

http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp

DDT.
thank you for your soo polite reply and I tyhink this is the way you were brought up.
I think you know no thing about Isalm and regarding the unbelievable calims against Muhammad peace be upon him:"
He was a liar, murderer, a rapist (of non-Muslims, that is, oh, and except for that 9 year old) and a child-molester." This implies your shalow mental power. I have the right to ask you for a proof? If you can?
Regarding, that he married a 9 years old. TheIsalmic historians have mentioned different ages for the mother of believers Aishah when she was married to the prophet peace be upon him. That is because Arabs do not have records for births at that time. The real fact that science support is that in hot climate countries the girls reach adultry as young as 9 years. and you can search for this to be satisfied. Regarding your other lies about Muhammad peace be upon him:
A liar:
Muhammad was called among the non muslims Arabs As-Sadiq " the one who says truth" since he was a child. And in his teaching a pious muslim is not allowed to lie. I think a lier would not mind to let his followers do the same as him.
A Murderer:
can you prove this fact Mr. DDT. I want facts not something out of your head which I think full of hate against muslims.
a Rapist:
this is a nother lie from your side.

you said:
And by the way nobody took Palestine away from Arabs by force.
Firstly Arabs rejected the mandate in 1948.
Then after Arabs attacked peaceful Jewish settlements with 7 armies and were defeated, Arabs were offered the Palestinian lands again, which they again rejected because they want ALL of Israel.The fact is the entire country of Jordan was set aside for Palestinians.
This shows that you do not have a solid historical background. You are mislead by the Jewish propaganda. Please go and read the history slowly read about the Balfore 'promise' and then post your reply.
regarding the socalled Israili citizens. Those are COLONIZERS and all of them are part of THE STANDBY Jewish ARMY.
THEY ARE LAND THIEVES, WORSHIPPERS KILLERS.
you said:

The fact is that no one was really interested in Palestine until after the Jews there in the late 1800's started fixing up the land on order to make it productive and Arabs started to go there in order to find employment.


DO YOU THINK WE DO NOT KNOW OUR HISTORY. THERE WERE NOTHING WRONG WITH THE LAND TO BE FIXED CHUMMY.

REGARDING the MAP, ARABs with there different nations ( KANaanitets, AMMORITS, ETC>) are the first people to sttle in PALESTINE. Our history is soo deep in this land that such a fake map can change. Try something else.

DDT:
you have to have a lot of lessons in ETHICS, MORALS, HOW to DEBATE, and HOW to RESPECT OTHERS.

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