Thread: Israel-Lebanon conflict

Originally Posted by basurero

in their koran(or however you spell that)

[quote:3bo2smtl] like 10 wives or something like that...

Exactly. You know nothing about Islam so don't open your mouth.

Christianity is no better than Islam.[/quote:3bo2smtl]
And it doesn't sound like you know anything about Christianity.

We can argue all day long about what bad things Christians did and what bad things Muslims did, so I think that it is better to go straight to the source and judge the actions of Jesus against Mohammed.

Jesus:
Never had an army.
Never killed anyone.
Never ordered anyone to kill anyone.
Never stole anything.
Never raped anyone.
Never told his deciples it was ok to rape anyone.
Never was a child molestor.
Said, "Treat people the manner that you would want them to treat you."
"Love your enemies."


Mohammed:
Built a great army.
Went on about 20 campaigns of war, killing and mutilating as he went.
Ordered the death of hundred or thousands of prisoners. (900 Jews in one place)
Stole and looted camel trains or caravans to finance his first expeditions.
Raped women after first hacking the husbands into pieces in front of them.
Told his warriors that Allah said it was OK for them to rape hunreds captive women as long as they didn't ejaculate in them.
Had sex with an 8 or 9 year old girl who still played her dolls, when he was 56 years old. Her name was Aisha.
Said:
Christians and Jews are nothing more than pigs and apes. Search them out ant kill them where ever you find them.



So before you go equating Christianity with Islam and then "throwing the baby out with the bath water" I suggest you dig quite a bit deeper than where ever you have been digging.

Лол, ок ты прав.

Религия просто меня раздражает и мне охота было оскорбить кого-нибудь..... Я знал, что кто-то выругает меня за то, что я написал....

Я знал, что кто-то меня выругал бы за то, что я написал....

Конечно! Это точно, поскольку как этот форум должен использоваться.

(er.......you might need to correct that!)

Originally Posted by DDT

Я знал, что кто-нибудь меня выругал бы за то, что я написал....

Конечно! Это точно, поскольку так этот форум и должен использоваться!!!.

(er.......you might need to correct that!)

Спасибо. Правилен ли следующий вариант?

Я знал, что кто-нибудь меня выругает за то, что я написал....

Originally Posted by basurero

Спасибо. Правилен ли следующий вариант?

Я знал, что кто-нибудь меня выругает за то, что я написал....

Absolutely right !!!

Originally Posted by Chuvak

Originally Posted by basurero

Спасибо. Правилен ли следующий вариант?

Я знал, что кто-нибудь меня выругает за то, что я написал....

Absolutely right !!!

Элвис Жив!

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Why is it sad if you don't give a flying f***?

Time to be a little less selfish, Mordanchik!

it is sad because

1) it shows people are uneducated and are lacking common sense
2) the news feed themselves on emotional stuff, bad events, negative energy. I hate it. It does not bring good waves and helps making this world like it is today.

Originally Posted by Mordan

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Why is it sad if you don't give a flying f***?

Time to be a little less selfish, Mordanchik!

it is sad because

1) it shows people are uneducated and are lacking common sense
2) the news feed themselves on emotional stuff, bad events, negative energy. I hate it. It does not bring good waves and helps making this world like it is today.

But if the media informs the public that there are many heat-related deaths at the moment, than people can exercise extra caution. You can

Dear Prime Minister,
I am writing to express my deepest concern about the killing of more than 300 civilian Lebanese, including dozens of children, by Israeli air strikes in Lebanon in the week since 12 July. Hundreds of other civilians have been injured during those attacks as well.
During their air strikes, the Israeli forces have also damaged civilian infrastructure throughout Lebanon. They have deliberately targeted and destroyed dozens of bridges, roads, powers stations, the international airport and ports, grain silos and other facilities. Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been forced to flee their homes, notably in South Lebanon and in the suburbs of the capital, Beirut. Such attacks are a blatant breach of international humanitarian law and some amount to war crimes.

I took this from Amnesty International

[quote=Kamion]Dear Prime Minister,
I am writing to express my deepest concern about the killing of more than 300 civilian Lebanese, including dozens of children, by Israeli air strikes in Lebanon in the week since 12 July. Hundreds of other civilians have been injured during those attacks as well.
During their air strikes, the Israeli forces have also damaged civilian infrastructure throughout Lebanon. They have deliberately targeted and destroyed dozens of bridges, roads, powers stations, the international airport and ports, grain silos and other facilities. Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been forced to flee their homes, notably in South Lebanon and in the suburbs of the capital, Beirut. Such attacks are a blatant breach of international humanitarian law and some amount to war crimes.

I took this from Amnesty International

Интересно, как бы Швеция или Турция реагировали на военное нападение с соседней страны и на призывы к их уничтожению?

Originally Posted by Lampada

Интересно, как бы Швеция или Турция реагировали на военное нападение с соседней страны и на призывы к их уничтожению?

Аналогия не совсем уместна. Почему например ты оправдываешь действия Израиля, а представители мусульманского мира и европы их осуждают? Это не вопрос того что "на самом деле" и не того что правильно а что нет. А вопрос самодентификации высказывающегося ИМХО.

[quote=Alware][quote=Kamion]Dear Prime Minister,
I am writing to express my deepest concern about the killing of more than 300 civilian Lebanese, including dozens of children, by Israeli air strikes in Lebanon in the week since 12 July. Hundreds of other civilians have been injured during those attacks as well.
During their air strikes, the Israeli forces have also damaged civilian infrastructure throughout Lebanon. They have deliberately targeted and destroyed dozens of bridges, roads, powers stations, the international airport and ports, grain silos and other facilities. Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been forced to flee their homes, notably in South Lebanon and in the suburbs of the capital, Beirut. Such attacks are a blatant breach of international humanitarian law and some amount to war crimes.

I took this from Amnesty International

Originally Posted by Alware

Originally Posted by Lampada

Интересно, как бы Швеция или Турция реагировали на военное нападение с соседней страны и на призывы к их уничтожению?

Аналогия не совсем уместна. Почему например ты оправдываешь действия Израиля, а представители мусульманского мира и европы их осуждают? Это не вопрос того что "на самом деле" и не того что правильно а что нет. А вопрос самодентификации высказывающегося ИМХО.

Уже и спросить нельзя.
Кстати, ты хочешь сказать, что объективным в данной теме быть нельзя?
"самодентификация"? Опять новое слово.

[quote=Kamion][quote=Alware][quote=Kamion]Dear Prime Minister,
I am writing to express my deepest concern about the killing of more than 300 civilian Lebanese, including dozens of children, by Israeli air strikes in Lebanon in the week since 12 July. Hundreds of other civilians have been injured during those attacks as well.
During their air strikes, the Israeli forces have also damaged civilian infrastructure throughout Lebanon. They have deliberately targeted and destroyed dozens of bridges, roads, powers stations, the international airport and ports, grain silos and other facilities. Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been forced to flee their homes, notably in South Lebanon and in the suburbs of the capital, Beirut. Such attacks are a blatant breach of international humanitarian law and some amount to war crimes.

I took this from Amnesty International

Originally Posted by Kamion

And God (fitting expression), so many americans here are unbelievably brainwashed.

...and most seem to think that Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, al-Qaeda, Syria etc. are totally indistinguishable from each other and part of one uniform Muslim conspiracy against the West. When the reality is a lot more complex. For example, al-Qaeda are a Wahhabist movement who view Shias with contempt and see them as not being real Muslims. That's why Zarqawi and the foreign fighters in Iraq target car bombs at Shia civilians in an attempt to provoke outright civil war in the country. Hezbollah is a Shia organisation and has no admiration for or connection with al-Qaeda. Even Hamas has no real links with al-Qaeda and is solely focused on its fight against Israel while al-Qaeda has little real interest in the Palestinian cause, being more concerned with the overthrow of pro-Western governments in the rest of the Middle East.

Just allowing Israel to bash Hezbollah isn't necessarily going to make things any better, in fact there's a grave risk it will make matters much worse. Lebanon is a fragile multiethnic society that is still recovering from years of civil war and could fall apart again in the face of this onslaught, creating another failed state for al-Qaeda fighters to operate in. Also perhaps Bush and his pals should stop and think how the Shias in Iraq feel about seeing their brothers in Lebanon bombed relentlessly by Israel day after day (now with American supplied bunker busting bombs). The Sunni population is already in revolt at the American presence there, how much worse will it be for American soldiers on the ground if the Shias turn against them too?

Originally Posted by Kamion

That is precisely the argument I dislike the most.

That's because this is where you lose the argument

Originally Posted by prospector

...and most seem to think that Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, al-Qaeda, Syria etc. are totally indistinguishable from each other and part of one uniform Muslim conspiracy against the West. When the reality is a lot more complex.

It doesn't really matter about their personal squabbles with each other!!
They are all united in their cause to destroy Israel
their hate for USA and their love for the man Mohammed who raped his enemies wives. And that pretty mush somes up the kind of people you are spending valualble time defending.

Originally Posted by prospector

Just allowing Israel to bash Hezbollah isn't necessarily going to make things any better,

Er......yes it is. They won't be able to launch rockets into Israel from South Lebabnon anymore.Duh!

Hazbollah is the same Basayev, Raduyev, Dudayev. They must be dead.

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by prospector

...and most seem to think that Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, al-Qaeda, Syria etc. are totally indistinguishable from each other and part of one uniform Muslim conspiracy against the West. When the reality is a lot more complex.

It doesn't really matter about their personal squabbles with each other!!
They are all united in their cause to destroy Israel
their hate for USA and their love for the man Mohammed who raped his enemies wives. And that pretty mush somes up the kind of people you are spending valualble time defending.

You seem a little confused, I'm not defending the actions of any of these groups, just seeking to explain the relationships and the complexity of the situation. Perhaps, if someone had explained the realities of the situation in the Middle East to Bush and his supporters they mightn't have blundered into Iraq and made such a right royal mess of it all. (That's a hell of a big 'if' though!)

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by prospector

Just allowing Israel to bash Hezbollah isn't necessarily going to make things any better,

Er......yes it is. They won't be able to launch rockets into Israel from South Lebabnon anymore.Duh!

The rockets are still flying over, if things were as simple as you suggest then why didn't Israel's massive campaigns in Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 not succeed in bringing peace and security to Israel's northern border? And if Israel couldn't crush Hezbollah in the 90s, what's changed now that would allow them to do it?

In any case, Israel's response goes way beyond just attacking rocket launching sites and stockpiles, the wholesale destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure is threatening the very stability of the country, that's not going to make Israel any more secure.

Also, why did Israel agree to a prisoner swap with Hezbollah before? This set a precedent for this activity. If Israel refused such an arrangement then, it might make her insistence on no negotiations now a little easier to understand.