They do it constantly, but not in case of this law. The law is insignificant, nobody will discuss it inside Russia, as it was said, Russians don't care because it does not influence their lives.I think this issue is all about the Russian Government distracting its populace from more serious issues/matters anyway.
"Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."
I think the Winter Olympics will still be in Sochi!David Cameron rejected the stupid idea!
David Cameron rejects Stephen Fry's call for a ban on Russia hosting the Winter Olympics - Home News - UK - The Independent
Btw, it's not President Putin. I mean, what is a democracy? It means that the majority wins. The majority of the Russian people didn't want to have to deal with gay sex parad4es. So even if there wasn't a law, the majority of the people would still stop the parades.
And if President Putin said no, you can't have a law against the parades, would he be working for the people or against them?
There's tons of violence against gays in America and lots of gay people off themselves. Making gay parades legal never stopped that from happening. So if gay parades were legal in Russia then there would still be violence against gays there and in the US. That wouldn't disappear.
As for me, I think it's all political and the olympics should NOT be all about politics, just sports. And no country has the right to tell another country what to do, period!
Btw, did anyone notice that we aren't boycotting Middle East oil. And those countries are seriously anti-gay!
Sochi has the most epic stuff for the Olympics and that's where the Olympics needs to be, period.
And President Putin did say that the anti-gay-propaganda law would be lifted for the Olympics. I just hope they don't have any parades though cause that's NOT sports.
Да! Миллиарды были изящно освоены доблестными российскими строителями, чтобы провести Зимние Игры в субтропиках!
А теперь нам говорят: мы не приедем! Это просто некрасиво
"Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."
Who cares what Cameron says?Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
I think the Winter Olympics will still be in Sochi!
David Cameron rejects Stephen Fry's call for a ban on Russia hosting the Winter Olympics - Home News - UK - The Independent
Btw, it's not President Putin. I mean, what is a democracy? It means that the majority wins. The majority of the Russian people didn't want to have to deal with gay sex parad4es. So even if there wasn't a law, the majority of the people would still stop the parades.
And if President Putin said no, you can't have a law against the parades, would he be working for the people or against them?
There's tons of violence against gays in America and lots of gay people off themselves. Making gay parades legal never stopped that from happening. So if gay parades were legal in Russia then there would still be violence against gays there and in the US. That wouldn't disappear.
As for me, I think it's all political and the olympics should NOT be all about politics, just sports. And no country has the right to tell another country what to do, period!
Btw, did anyone notice that we aren't boycotting Middle East oil. And those countries are seriously anti-gay!
Sochi has the most epic stuff for the Olympics and that's where the Olympics needs to be, period.
And President Putin did say that the anti-gay-propaganda law would be lifted for the Olympics. I just hope they don't have any parades though cause that's NOT sports.Anyway, I think you miss the point and so I'll explain why I find fault in your argument.
"It's not about President Putin?" What does that mean? The Olympics is all about politics, at least who is granted the location. But, this issue is about do you agree or disagree with the Government preventing expression and based on what. About parades: if you allow one, you have to allow them all. In the West, these gay parades get state funding and imho, that is unethical. In some countries, there's loopholes the Government uses and they call it 'tourism' projects or whatever. Russia wants to prevent these ideas from developing but people should say 'Нет' on their own. Why does Government always have to do the thinking for the people? I would be very wary with the Russian government dictating these policies and introducing laws to fight 'propaganda.' I already proved that the TV programming is in contradiction to what the law supposedly is doing. So, what is about? I disagree with Maxim's assertion that this is not for distraction. It's in the news every day and globally. The Russians might not care about the issue but the fact that you have the West attacking Russia about it means people will talk about that. Do you think Putin just woke up one day and decided to implement this law? No one predicted the consequences? I doubt it. He knew this would be one law that the majority would tolerate the prevention of rights since they don't care about that section of society.
I do think the West should stay out of it, though. They are hypocrites as always. They are the first to talk about rights when it's convenient but hypocrisy is a common theme.
People should be allowed to have their opinions, though, without special interest groups trying to control what people think.
That's okay. I always miss the point if it's about politics.Who cares what Cameron says?
"It's not about President Putin?" What does that mean? The Olympics is all about politics, at least who is granted the location. But, this issue is about do you agree or disagree with the Government preventing expression and based on what. About parades: if you allow one, you have to allow them all. In the West, these gay parades get state funding and imho, that is unethical. In some countries, there's loopholes the Government uses and they call it 'tourism' projects or whatever. Russia wants to prevent these ideas from developing but people should say 'Нет' on their own. Why does Government always have to do the thinking for the people? I would be very wary with the Russian government dictating these policies and introducing laws to fight 'propaganda.' I already proved that the TV programming is in contradiction to what the law supposedly is doing. So, what is about? I disagree with Maxim's assertion that this is not for distraction. It's in the news every day and globally. The Russians might not care about the issue but the fact that you have the West attacking Russia about it means people will talk about that. Do you think Putin just woke up one day and decided to implement this law? No one predicted the consequences? I doubt it. He knew this would be one law that the majority would tolerate the prevention of rights since they don't care about that section of society.
I do think the West should stay out of it, though. They are hypocrites as always. They are the first to talk about rights when it's convenient but hypocrisy is a common theme.
People should be allowed to have their opinions, though, without special interest groups trying to control what people think.And no, I don't care what Cameron, Obama, Merkel, Putin, Hollande, or anybody else says. But somebody did since they posted that article. Well, here's another article. Even Obama says NO to boycotting the Olympics.
President Obama says no to a boycott of 2014 Sochi Olympics - latimes.com
Btw, did anybody thank Russia for making an awesome place for the Winter Olympics? Okay, I will. Thanks Russia!
I disagree about the politics thing. It's the International Olympics Committee that decides who will host the games, NOT the governments. Politicians and gay people should NOT be messing up the Olympics!
And btw, imo, the gay sex parades cause more people to get hurt than the new law does. I would never hit somebody because they were gay. I wouldn't even treat them differently. But some people do and gay parades are the best way for people to see who's gay. Then they attack them.
But it's still RUSSIA'S problem and the only people who should be dealing with it are RUSSIANS. Should Russia have protests and boycotts because nobody will sell me beer? It's my money, right? So why can't I buy beer? They discriminate against me and say I'm too young to buy beer and it's not fair!
But I didn't write a letter to Russia and tell them to protest for me and boycott stuff. Why? Because it's NOT a Russian issue. It's an American issue about American laws.
If everything was an International issue then all the countries would be the same and they are not.
And no. I don't believe that President Putin is using that law to attack gay people. If that was the reason then he would have made it illegal to even be gay. But he didn't. So I think he wrote the law to protect them. If they aren't marching down the street with flags and talking about being gay, then mostly there wouldn't be that much violence.
Btw, the West is NOT right. If the West was right then it wouldn't have huge crime rates, tons of violence, tons of murders, and tons of riots. And the politicians wouldn't have to lie to all the other countries about almost everything.
Imo, America and the EU are total disasters! So why would any other country even listen to the advice of a total disaster?
Anyway, the Russian people are NOT Americans or Europeans. They are Russians. That deserves a lot of respect. And friendship is all about respect.
I respect Russians so I trust them to solve their own issues. They are doing that now.
Oh, and btw, I cancelled my plans to march down the street with 2 hot girls half naked. LOL! I really didn't think anybody would be very interested or boycott the olympics if we just played video games in the den.
I don't have time for that anyway because I'm still working on my map of the 83 districts of Russia, grammar, and waiting for mom to get back home from shopping so I can put stuff away. Hurry up Saturday night!
They are completely retarded, there is no logic to their case against Russia AT ALL!
There is such blatant hypocrisy in this that I hope no MR member is stupid enough to fall for this nonsense.
1. The reporting on this in European / American press is HYPOCRITICAL and lacks principle. The laws in everyone's chic shopping/sun destination in the Arab Emirates are MUCH worse than Russia. Stoning, prison, or lashes! Not to mention Saudi Arabia, and virtually all other countries in the Middle East and Africa. Which we happily do business with, donate aid to, not to mention Saudi where loads of Europeans work for a couple of years to make fast tax-free money. But you'd better not be gay if you are planning this, or things could end VERY badly. As a male, you could leave without your ____ if you engage in homosexuality while there. So why is Russia singled out?
2. It's NOT illegal or punishable in Russia to be gay! It's only illegal to make a spectacle of it, or go around promoting it to children, which shows that Russians actually care about their children's lifestyle, innocence and health and have a bit of class! (The pride parades are vulgar and intrusive to people who don't share the sexual orientation of the participants -- the elderly, religious or families with children and others.). Let people live out their homosexual extravagant fantasies, AT HOME where it is not offensive to others.
3. The laws regarding this reflects the majority view of Russian citizens. No doubt about it. It's called DEMOCRACY for a government to respect people's views in matters like this, rather than listening to media in distant countries, who are just pushing their own nefarious agendas... ! People who are concerned about democracy in Russia should be pleased that in this case the law has broad support and reflects the views of the majority.
4. Russia has gay clubs, a gay scene and people who are living openly gay lifestyles, some of whom are public figures. There is no issue here!
Ask yourself instead: Why is Russia singled out in EU / US media as a country that discriminates against gays? Could it be part of the general agenda to portray Russia as an oppressive, dangerous country to steer clear of and treat with suspicion?
The general line that Russia is un-denmocratic and brutal? Well let the Russians themselves complain if they have an issue, instead of pretending that we know exactly how everyone else should run their country.
Look who is talking by the way! The countries who are spying on their own citizens, torturing whistleblowers, drone-bombing innocent people in Pakistan, Afgahanistan and Yemen and supplying terrorists in Syria with weapons... But all this is ok, because we are so democratic and allow these wonderful and enrichening pride parade and encouraging a homosexual lifestyle. There is a rotten smell in this argument, but you are supposed to swallow it..
Seriously - this whole issue is a joke! If gay rights is something you are passionate about, then start by looking at the situation in the supposedly liberal Arab Emirates... Or the African nations that your tax money goes to in the form of aid.
I find Jews disgusting. I don't mind if they want to be Jewish in private but they shouldn't need to do it in public, and they certainly shouldn't be allowed to discuss Judaism with minors, that should be illegal. That's not oppressive though, right? So long as they're free to be Jewish in the privacy of their own homes then it's not discrimination. And anyway what about Saudi Arabia? They don't accept Jews there at all!
Your analogy is just stupid.
Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!
Great rebuttal.
(Deleted. L.)
Last edited by Lampada; August 11th, 2013 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Disrespect
It was a rather clever analogy, for sure, but I think I can counter it.
There is a difference between being a Jew and being homosexual in this context.
One is offensive to a great deal of people in Russia, and the other isn't.
And the Jews are not demanding to do a massive Jewish Pride parade and make some dramatic or offensive political and religious gestures that would provoke and offend others. If they did, then probably that might not be appreciated either.
Anyway, the Russians have decided that in THEIR country, it's ok to manifest religions like Judaism up to a point, but not have a dramatic homosexual manifestation.
So what?! It's their country and nobody is harmed or suffers from this. Why is it anyone else's business?
Don't we have a sense of humor here? Can not recognize sarcasm?
I said that I find stupid to put similarities between nationality or religion and sexual orientation and you switched to personal insults. (Deleted.L.)
Last edited by Lampada; August 11th, 2013 at 05:48 PM. Reason: Disrespect. Getting personal
Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!
Our country claims that the gay parades and stuff increase awareness and sensitivity. Here's how much it helps.
Hate Crimes Against Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, And Transgender Individuals - Confronting the New Faces of HateReported hate crimes committed against individuals because of their sexual orientation increased in 2007 to 1,265, the highest level in five years. Of all hate crimes reported in 2007, the proportion committed against lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) individuals rose to 16.6 percent, also the highest level in five years. According to the FBI's HCSA reports, gay men and lesbians have consistently been the third most frequent target of hate violence over the past decade.
Yeah, all that awareness and sensitivity is really helping gay people... not.
Imo, Russia has the best gay laws in the world right now. America has the worst and it even affects people that aren't gay.
Firefighters ordered into ‘gay’ parade back in court
What happened to the firefighters human rights to Not be forced participate in a gay parade?
What happened to their human rights to Not be harassed by gay people?
How much did the gay marchers respect THEIR heterosexual orientation? - They didn't.
America got the gay but our city didn't. There's only 112,000 people here so there's not enough gays for a gay parade.
Not enough gays for a gay parade. This phrase alone gives me creeps.
Am I the only one here who's wondering why the Russian officials made such extended use of the word "gay" in the law? They could've stated it as "public expression of one's sexual views or their propaganda to minors is illegal", and no one would've been offended; why did they decide to split the society by making statements like that in the law?
In the Baltic States they simply didn't have enough gay people to do a proper parade. And the gay people themselves did not want to be in the parade for the most part. So activists from the UK, Sweden and Germany went there to "help" them get started with gay parades. Lord almighty. Foreign ambassadors and people like Hilary Clinton came to make speeches. It's almost forced on them. Meanwhile all public polls show that nobody is interested. The ANTI-pride protest is usually bigger than the parades themselves as far as I understand. This all seems very un-spontaneous and almost forced.
Democracy is not the same as dictatorship by the majority. It is founded on the principle that everyone is equal before the law. The principle of majority rule does not supersede that. The majority cannot vote to deny the minority's human rights.
Also it's not about holding gay pride parades. It's about laws that specifically target a group of people for discrimination.
I live in a small city with my parents and the largest building here is 10 stories tall - I think we have 3 buildings that tall but most of the buildings are really old, especially downtown. The most popular music is country music or classic rock - It's not easy to check out new music here but we do get one radio station that has it, yay!
Trust me, this isn't a city that gay people want to live in. We saw 2 gay dudes in a shop and when we walked in, they stopped talking and looked kinda worried. Now they keep talking in front of me but only if I'm alone.
My State is one of the most anti-gay states in America.
Did you see what happened at the gay parade in Russia? That happens a lot here but there aren't any gay parades.
Wrong. That's not the definition of democracy.
Democracy is NOT about equality. It's only about self government. The Constitution of the United States of America is NOT about equality. And it doesn't even mention equality.THE MERRIAM-WEBSTER DICTIONARY:
de·moc·ra·cy \di-ˈmä-krə-sē\ government by the people; especially : rule of the majority.
THE OXFORD DICTIONARY:
de·moc·ra·cy \di-ˈmä-krə-sē\ Control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
From the French démocratie, from Late Latin dēmocratia, from Greek dēmokratia government by the people (As opposed to monarchy).
The ONLY American political document that even discusses equality is the American Declaration of Independence.
Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome were also democracies. That type of government was invented in Ancient Greece but the people were NOT treated as equals.
Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official TextWe hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript
History of democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A lot of what I study is Military History. The American Revolution, the military campaigns of Alexander the Great, and the rise and fall of the Roman Empire are part of those studies.
Btw, if you read the U.S. Constiution, you will learn that a unanimous vote is NEVER required to pass a law - unless it's about an amendment to the Constitution.
Translation - All American laws were passed by the majority of the people, NOT by everybody. And a lot of those laws DO TARGET minorities for discrimination.
Some groups that American laws target: Nudists (indecent exposure), exhibitionists (sex in public), alcoholics (DUI), people attracted to animals (beastiality laws), Mormons (can only have 1 wife), etc etc etc etc.
Russia does not discriminate against gays and it doesn't oppress them either. Russia only discriminates against exhibitionism.
And btw, if the word "gay" was used a lot in that new law, then maybe it was because the heterosexuals weren't the people who were making all the drama about sex.
Interesting, who is behind this all.This all seems very un-spontaneous and almost forced.
Quote from my favorite American film "Big Lebowski":
"It's all a goddamn fake. Like Lenin said, look for the person who will benefit. And you will, uh, you know, you'll, uh, you know what I'm trying to say.."
"Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."
В самом деле? Так же или сильнее, чем дети на этой фотке?
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