Thread: Are Russians too conservative?

Well, starting a thread is the last thing I feel like doing now, since I don't have that much time but I've read a comment about Russians today on another forum that said:

...no amount of oil and gas can fix Russia's problems. The oligarchy will become richer, not the people en masse... the nation is at large racist, anti-gay, and anti what not. For the most part it is an ignorant, superstitious, ultra-conservative nation.

It got me thinking, esp. in light of the thread on homosexuals... Do you think it's true? Do we need to change and become more progressive as a society? Is the Western model, say, of family life necessarily the best one? I disagree with the "ignorant" part and I don't think the majority of Russians are racist. I have met individuals who are. I was once dating a guy who saw fit to ask me on the third date about whether I could marry a "coloured" ("цветной") man. I was really shocked at this. Digging deeper I learned that he didn't have a very high opinion about people with darker skin. I was young, green, and naive and didn't know that racism still existed. I'd just read "To Kill a Mocking Bird" by Harper Lee so the mere fact that anyone should have such ideas was very strange -- like, what age are you living in, man? He wasn't exactly Russian by descent, as a matter of fact, but there are enough Russian jerks as well, so...
I do think that such individuals are rare, though. I was reading comments on the film "Slumdog Millionaire" a few days ago and the majority were very favourable except for one who said something along the lines "не хочу смотреть кино про чурок" -- what a disgusting word, that.

I have now become quite an Indophile (yes, yes, I know, у кого, что болит...) and the thing that strikes me is that they seem to have very conservative views in marriage, for example. But to me, it's a good thing -- marriage and family are considered a sacred thing there and people aren't in a hurry to get a divorce every time a little disagreement comes up. So in this respect, I think India shouldn't lose its traditions and identity. The castes, on the other hand, are def. a thing to be shed... Well, what about Russia?

Originally Posted by starrysky

But to me, it's a good thing -- marriage and family are considered a sacred thing [...]

The biggest problem is that there's no objective measure. I mean, the only objective (biological) measure is reproductivity, but based on that there should be no divorces, only the fittest should reproduce, etc. There would be no place for love (and desire). I personally perceive that as an inhumane society. Why? Because I've been raised in Russian culture where love is important. In the caste system, love can or cannot be important based on the other more sacred factors. I recently spoke with an Indian colleague and he said that presently in India you can as a couple ignore the caste system if you love each other, but you would have to leave your parents (for whom the caste is more important than love) and move to another place where nobody knows you.

Originally Posted by starrysky

Do we need to change and become more progressive as a society?

What is a progressive society? People en mass rarely reflect on what they are doing, let alone on what type of society they are. They form their opinions based on very arbitrary factors, such as who can say things cooler, stricter, funnier and louder. Other things are just the society customs. For example: inmates in Russian jails despise "roosters", but almost anyone can become a "rooster" after being "put down". And those very same "roosters" are "being used" by those very same inmates! How's that working with the logic? No logic. The society custom.

Do we need to change and become more progressive as a society?

Of course not. What a dumb question.

Are Russians too conservative?

Yes

The DOT.

I think the main questions here are - What is "conservative" and what is "progressive"?

Originally Posted by Eugene-p

The DOT.

=> Period. (I think)

A little explanation of what Russians hate (at least me):

1. A man should f..k a woman and there are no other combinations. Never.
2. Yes, I am a rasist a bit. I strongly HATE some folks.
3. If a woman would paid for me in a restaurant or something, she would insult me very hard. I say it.
4. The marriage has 2 sides: the public one and the private one. I would be very glad if one takes part in th public one, but, ....you know what....

Okay, that's enough.

Originally Posted by Eugene-p

Okay, that's enough.

Would you care to justify your point of view? I mean, what you just mentioned is not even conservative.

Conservative, but not tto much. The society is splitted into two implacable camps: commy and pro-Western people. The pro-Western people copy blindly everything from the West, while the commy part denies everything that does'n smell with naphthalene. And there are a lot of people in between. Regardless political view, most Russians consider things to be better quality if those things were made in Germany, France, America, Japan and other countries.

Originally Posted by mishau_

The society is splitted into two implacable camps: commy and pro-Western people.

Ha ha ha ha ha

Originally Posted by starrysky

...no amount of oil and gas can fix Russia's problems. The oligarchy will become richer, not the people en masse... the nation is at large racist, anti-gay, and anti what not. For the most part it is an ignorant, superstitious, ultra-conservative nation.

Why we need to love gays and negroes to live better?

I first seen a negro when I was a child (approximately 7-8 years old). I was shocked, cried, and ran to my mother. She explained me that far away are living black-skinned people (called negroes), and sometimes they are going to Russia, even into our small town Taganrog.

So, if they are so good, why they are scaring small children?

Concerning the gays... Imagine old Soviet film. A young girl crying to a soldier going to a war: «I love you! I will wait you forever!» The soldier answering: «I want to say you something important! I am a gay...» and doing deep kiss to another soldier. Cannot imagine? Me too.

P.S. What is «anti-what-not»?

Thanks for replies, everyone.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The biggest problem is that there's no objective measure. I mean, the only objective (biological) measure is reproductivity, but based on that there should be no divorces, only the fittest should reproduce, etc. There would be no place for love (and desire). I personally perceive that as an inhumane society. Why? Because I've been raised in Russian culture where love is important. In the caste system, love can or cannot be important based on the other more sacred factors. I recently spoke with an Indian colleague and he said that presently in India you can as a couple ignore the caste system if you love each other, but you would have to leave your parents (for whom the caste is more important than love) and move to another place where nobody knows you.

Thanks for the insight, Croc. The reason I mentioned India is because I was quite struck with the respect they seem to have for marriage, just to compare Bollywood couples who seem to be pretty constant and the Hollywood ones who are splitting right, left and centre... I do think that respect for family and marriage are things that should be upheld... supported and promoted. I grew up seeing and hearing so much about divorce, and seeing beautiful and seemingly reasonable couples breaking up, I was quite convinced I should never marry at all -- what for, if you're gonna split up anyway.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

What is a progressive society? People en mass rarely reflect on what they are doing, let alone on what type of society they are. They form their opinions based on very arbitrary factors, such as who can say things cooler, stricter, funnier and louder. Other things are just the society customs. For example: inmates in Russian jails despise "roosters", but almost anyone can become a "rooster" after being "put down". And those very same "roosters" are "being used" by those very same inmates! How's that working with the logic? No logic. The society custom.

These things are sort of biological -- you can see them in hens, for example: hierarchy, pecking order, Alpha and Omega hens, who can peck whom, etc. It's supposed to reduce aggression -- when everyone knows their place in the scale of things (at least, that's what we were told in ecology lessons). But human beings can build a better society.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

Of course not. What a dumb question.

I'm not sure I know what you mean... Do you mean that Russians are anti-gay and racist and so on but there's no need to change it or that we are nothing of the sort? If the latter, I wish I could be as confident as you and refute such accusaions with a simple "stuff and nonsense." This opinion about Russians as racists seems to be rather spread. At least I'm a bit tired of reading such things. It's not as though there are no skinheads in GB, for instance.

Threads on Russian are habitually closed at the message board I took that quote from because they frequently degenerate into dubbing Russians "racist" and so on. Like this one.

Originally Posted by "Crocodile

Period. (I think)

Uh-huh. Or "full stop" in British English.

Originally Posted by SAn

So, if they are so good, why they are scaring small children?

*amused*Have you seen no black people in pictures or cartoons, like "Каникулы Бонифация"? I was at a practice in school a few years ago and they had a black girl staying. She was SO popular, kids were fighting amongst themselves to be her friend, to sit with her, to walk round the school with her and so on.

Originally Posted by SAn

P.S. What is «anti-what-not»?

whatnot = и т.п.

Originally Posted by SAn

I first seen a negro when I was a child (approximately 7-8 years old). I was shocked, cried, and ran to my mother.

What???? Why?
И разве негры виноваты в твоей тонкой душевной организации?

Concerning the gays... Imagine old Soviet film. A young girl crying to a soldier going to a war: «I love you! I will wait you forever!» The soldier answering: «I want to say you something important! I am a gay...» and doing deep kiss to another soldier. Cannot imagine? Me too.

You mean like this?

The American Conservatism consists of these basic values:

1. Religion. This is not that popular in Russia.
2. Traditional family, sexual life values. Ok, here we're similar.
3. Personal freedom fondness, it, among everything, implies conservative attitude to a government role in a society - the smaller it is the better. It's completely different from the mainstream Russian point of view.
4. Financial self-responsibility. This is not what most Russians see as a value. "Putin must divide the oil and gas revenues equally among all the citizens"
5. Nationalism. The American nationalism has much in common with the Russian one (not ethnically oriented), and, at the same time, much different, since the Russian's directed towards the state: 'I'm a soldier of a victorious empire, ave, Caesar!'

I think of myself as a rather conservative person. (I mean I'd be only sightseeing in Amsterdam.) So, being absolutely straight, I don't understand at all what those gay guys find in each other. However, if I don't understand, it doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong, so my conservatism dictates: if in doubt, don't do anything (hostile or otherwise) towards them with respect to that matter.

As for the black guys living in Russia... well, people migrate from place to place. It's a fact. And if someone doesn't happen to acknowledge that simple fact, I'd suggest that racist person go back to his Africa! (Since that's where the parents of all the presently living humans have come from [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve ]).

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

You mean like this?

Yes, I mean... Oh no!

My answer on the question of the topic: yes, we are conservative indeed, speaking about myself at least, cause when I'll see such news event happening in Russia I guess it willl be the Apocalypse eve :

Drunk female bishop caught driving during the lent

Russians are free in comparison with Americans:

• We are free to go to the center of city and cry than we hate negroes. Americans can't do it. They will go to a prison due to rasism.[/*:m:1kfpxk9a]
• We can slap the bottom of nice girl-colleague and she will smile to us. Americans can't do it. They will go to a prison due to sexual harassment.[/*:m:1kfpxk9a]
• We can download and watch any pirated movie from the Internet (I even have a small computer permanently connected to a flat-panel TV, so I just need to type movie title and wait 15 minutes until it is downloaded). Americans can't do it. They will go to a prison due to computer piracy.[/*:m:1kfpxk9a]
• In every student dormitory we have local computrer network with all learning materials, scanned textbooks etc. I have read terrible stories about american students paying huge fines for that due to copyright infringement.[/*:m:1kfpxk9a]
• I don't know how in Moscow, but in Taganrog most of satellite receivers are sold with hacked firmware, so they automatically download channel keys from the Internet. Sellers do it because they know that no sane person will buy satellite receiver if he will need to pay separately for the channels. It is as stupid as paying for the air you breath. So we are free to watch any satellite channel for free.[/*:m:1kfpxk9a]

Americans live in a fear of law. And they are trying to make the whole world live like that. Life got worse!

SAn, sorry but you are a sick bastard. Please, keep that idiotic "jokes" of yours for yourself. Stop terrorizing people with your stupid "humor"!

Ok, I have removed it. Sorry if hurted your feelings.

Instead a have added interesting fact about hacked satellite receivers.