Thread: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?

but the rolling Rs are missing

They are present. It sounds similar to Russian. The obvious wrong thing is that ш, ж are not hard enough, they are semi-soft.

Oh yes, I just realised that this thread was started by none other than myself, a couple of years ago! I can answer my own question now, I think.

Well, I can say now that for Ukrainians and Belarussians they are VERY nice and patient with people who speak poor Russian. Particularly Ukrainians. Apart from three minor incidents, I had no problem at all travelling in this region and speaking only Russian with people. The three incidents were with officials. And my Russian is really appalling. My grammar is terrible. Everyone was kind and helpful, or neutral. Several people went to great lengths to help me.

Try this approach in Paris and people will be ruder than you could ever imagine! People in Sweden would simply ignore somebody who speaks the language as poorly as I speak Russian.

I think Russian "language snobbism" is directed more towards native speakers, or maybe "nearly" native speakers. Clearly, educated Russians are very proud of their language and do not like to see it abused or dumbed down. But they are not snobbish towards learners from other countries.

Originally Posted by Marcus

I can. Czech and Slovak have very many stressed Rs and Ls - syllabic consonants. Bulgarian sounds similar to Russian (free stress, vowel reduction, palatalized consonats), Serbian I know a little. It depends whether you heard those languages much or not. Most Russians never listen to other Slavic languages, probably can recognize only Ukrainian and Belorussian.

I once knew a Bulgarian guy who could speak fluent Russian. I was extremely impressed by this at the time, and asked him lots of questions about it - how he had learnt etc.
Remember him saying that Russians he knew in London usually didn't realise that he was from Bulgaria at all, but thought that he was a native Russian speaker. That seemed very strange to me - he had never actually lived in any Russian speaking country, only learnt it in school and apparently used it a bit at university and early in his career. Perhaps Bulgarian is so similar to Russian but I found this very odd. Was on a blind date with this guy and was just grasping for topics of conversation which was how this came up! Lol!

Originally Posted by Hanna

I once knew a Bulgarian guy who could speak fluent Russian. I was extremely impressed by this at the time, and asked him lots of questions about it - how he had learnt etc.
Remember him saying that Russians he knew in London usually didn't realise that he was from Bulgaria at all, but thought that he was a native Russian speaker. That seemed very strange to me - he had never actually lived in any Russian speaking country, only learnt it in school and apparently used it a bit at university and early in his career. Perhaps Bulgarian is so similar to Russian but I found this very odd. Was on a blind date with this guy and was just grasping for topics of conversation which was how this came up! Lol!

That might individual, some people are good at accent, worked on it a lot. There was a girl at my grade in the university, a Bulgarian, and she has certain accent. She does not soften some consonants (like м in книгами), she reduces all the unstressed As to schwas (хъръшо while we say хърашо), ш and ж are a little bit softened, ы is not clear.
My brother's girlfriend is Bulgarian, she speaks accentless Russian, but she probably lived in Russia for a long time.

Когда поляки говорят по-русски они перевирают все ударения, и из-за этого становится трудно понять о чем речь. У нас учитель был поляк, ух это было нечто (и мы подшучивали над его смешными грамматическими оборотами).

Originally Posted by mishau_

Когда поляки говорят по-русски они перевирают все ударения, и из-за этого становится трудно понять о чем речь. У нас учитель был поляк, ух это было нечто (и мы подшучивали над его смешными грамматическими оборотами).

Вчера видел по ТВ интервью с каким-то режиссером и Валерием Золотухиным первые две-три минуты я думал что это говорит русский, только потом я услышал неслько слов употребленных не совсем точно и посмотрел на титры, когда и понял что это не русский а поляк Кшиштоф Занусси.

Мой бывший муж, болгарин, никогда не был в России, но в Болгарии много читал по-русски и со мной быстро заговорил по-русски - и так чисто, что русскоязычные думали, что он русский. Только удивлялись, когда он предствлял себя: "Славко".

Фонетика болгарского похожа на русскую, чего не скажешь чего не скажешь о чешской, например.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Фонетика болгарского похожа на русскую, чего не скажешь чего не скажешь о чешской, например.

Моя знакомая американка, которая неплохо говорила по-русски, начала учить чешский. В Праге она не могла понять, почему местные с ней были очень неприветливы. Потом выяснилось почему: она говорила по-чешски с русским акцентом.
Правда было это поколение тому назад.

Потом выяснилось почему: она говорила по-чешски с русским акцентом.

То есть по мнению тогдашних чехов, русский был виноват по-любому, даже если он учил чешский язык, был против вторжения и т. д.
Во вторжении участвовали войска нескольких стран и нерусских там было очень много.
Сейчас в Чехии нормально к русскому языку относятся.

Marcus is somthing of a Russian language snob, I think.....
One should mind one's ps and qs in any statement in front of him, I think!!
I have been corrected several times by Marcus when nobody else bothered.

Originally Posted by Hanna

--How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?

Often, but mostly from ex-USSR. Others include Chinese and sometimes negros (if you see a negro, most likely he speaks bad Russian

Originally Posted by Hanna

--Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?

Yes, there are such examples.

Originally Posted by Hanna

--What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?

Usually the Caucasus accent is perceived very negatively. Peoples from the Caucasus have very heavy accent and never can get rid of it,
even if they lived in Russia for a long time. For example, Stalin spoke with a very heavy accent although he spent most of his life in Russia.

Originally Posted by Hanna

--Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.

15 years ago most of them did. I do not know how it is now, but they generally have very light accent that disappears as the speaker progresses.

Originally Posted by Hanna

--What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?

It depends. Kyrgiz and Kazakh people usually speak better Russian; Uzbeks, Turkmens, Tajiks usually speak worse.

Originally Posted by Hanna

--What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?

Rarely.

Originally Posted by Hanna

--Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?

No

Originally Posted by Hanna

--What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?

As I already said the worst accent is usually that of Caucasians, especially of South Caucasians. This is not comparable with anything.

Thanks for the responses, Anixx!
If anyone has the time, could you post a video of somebody speaking Russian with a strong Caucasian accent? Not a parody, but a a real person...

And as for Stalin, if this accent is percieved very negatively, how was he able to gain people's respect, and become the leader? Doesn't it make him sound stupid or uneducated when he speaks? I mean many Russians (but certainly not all, I know!) have very high views of him, even today.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Thanks for the responses, Anixx!
If anyone has the time, could you post a video of somebody speaking Russian with a strong Caucasian accent? Not a parody, but a a real person...

And as for Stalin, if this accent is percieved very negatively, how was he able to gain people's respect, and become the leader? Doesn't it make him sound stupid or uneducated when he speaks? I mean many Russians (but certainly not all, I know!) have very high views of him, even today.

I think, negative impression of Caucasian accent is more of personal opinion of Anixx or the result of contemporary conflicts with north Caucasian ethnicities. Maybe even local Moscow trend. It was definitely not the widespread phenomenon in USSR and it is not widespread in Ukraine.

Second, there are many rather different peoples in Caucasus and accents can be different enough (though with some common features). The most prominent "Caucasian" accent win USSR was considered Georgian. It is often funny but hardly weird. Stupid - no. Uneducated - i do not think. At least if the accent is not too heavy.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Marcus is somthing of a Russian language snob, I think.....
One should mind one's ps and qs in any statement in front of him, I think!!
I have been corrected several times by Marcus when nobody else bothered.

What is ps and qs?
Actually you have asked for corrections - "Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки!". I'm not a snob, but I'm interested in Russian language. I'm not against being corrected myself at all.
And this site is for learning Russian, isn't it?

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I think, negative impression of Caucasian accent is more of personal opinion of Anixx or the result of contemporary conflicts with north Caucasian ethnicities. Maybe even local Moscow trend. It was definitely not the widespread phenomenon in USSR and it is not widespread in Ukraine.

Second, there are many rather different peoples in Caucasus and accents can be different enough (though with some common features). The most prominent "Caucasian" accent win USSR was considered Georgian. It is often funny but hardly weird. Stupid - no. Uneducated - i do not think. At least if the accent is not too heavy.

Yes. There is no any Caucasian accent: there are many unrelated languages there. The Georgian accent is the most famous, but I don't think we have any bias against it. Stalin's speech was not his strongest position and he rarelly spoke publicly.

Originally Posted by Marcus

What is ps and qs?
Actually you have asked for corrections - "Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки!". I'm not a snob, but I'm interested in Russian language. I'm not against being corrected myself at all.
And this site is for learning Russian, isn't it?

Sorry, you misunderstood me, I was joking! It was a silly joke though, since you got annoyed. Sorry!

But you are VERY interested in linguistics and language related matters, aren't you? Most of the time, I can't follow what you write about linguistics, even in English... I just don't know all that terminology. It must be very specialised.

Minding ps and qs means speaking properly, behaving properly. Not making grammatical mistakes or speaking slang.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Doesn't it make him sound stupid or uneducated when he speaks? I mean many Russians (but certainly not all, I know!) have very high views of him, even today.

I think this allowed him to appeal to the feelings of non-Russians. Like if he said "look I am also not Russian, if I want something done, it is not for the Russian imperialism, it is for us all who lives in the USSR".

What is ps and qs?...

'Ps and qs' originally comes from English pubs. It comes from "mind your ps and qs" => mind your pints and quarts.

Something like pay attention to your bar bill, the account at the pub. Ps and qs (pints and quarts) is the tabulation of outstanding drinks not payed for, for a particular patron. Pints and quarts of beer, ale etc. Means be upstanding, fully accounted for, responsible.

Originally Posted by Anixx

I think this allowed him to appeal to the feelings of non-Russians. Like if he said "look I am also not Russian, if I want something done, it is not for the Russian imperialism, it is for us all who lives in the USSR".

Interesting response! Thanks!