Thread: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?

This is to find out how native Russian speakers feel about people who speak Russian as a foreign language.

In Europe there is a varying degree of "language snobbery" depending on where you are.. A quick run-down:

England is a very tolerant place -- people don't care if somebody has a foreign accent, or even if he makes lots of mistakes when he speaks.

In Germany I have noticed that the expectations of speaking good German are generally much higher. I don't think you could get a good job in Germany unless you could speak good German.

In Sweden too, people are not always sympathetic towards those who use bad grammar or have a strong foreign accent. However this does not apply to people from Northern Europe; Germans, British, Polish, Baltic - since the general view of these nationalities is positive.

I have noticed that French people in Paris get irritated if you cannot express quickly and clearly what you want in French. They sometimes prefer not to speak English either. However I think they are quite tolerant with minor mistakes.

Spain - they are super-nice about bad language and are happy to help people who speak bad Spanish.


But I don't know what the situation is in Russia, Ukraine etc!
I am curious of course, since I am studying Russian. Are people going to laugh at me or ignore me?

--How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?
--Is the situation different in countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan?
--Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?
--Do you think that the situation with Russian-as-a-foreign-language has changed since the Soviet era? If so, how?
--What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?
--Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.
--What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?
--What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?
--Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?
--What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?

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Random funny person speaking Russian: A female medical student from Asia..
What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEUfE7YIsU

Funny clip about Russian lessons for Russians... (it's so hard that not even natives can speak it!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwovxKeMbY

Well, I'm American and I lived in Russia for two years and I can honestly say that I never, not even once, encountered someone who was rude or impatient with me when I spoke Russian. Everyone was patient, no matter how much I butchered the language. Russians are usually very understanding of foreigners - with the exception of some countries they have been at war with. The situation may have been different for me if I was from the Caucasus for example.

Americans seem a lot less tolerant of foreigners to me than Russians do. I have seen Americans treat foreigners extremely rudely. I would be a lot more afraid of coming to America and not speaking English or speaking poor English, than traveling to Russia and speaking limited Russian. Truly!

Originally Posted by Deborski

Russians are usually very understanding of foreigners - with the exception of some countries they have been at war with. The situation may have been different for me if I was from the Caucasus for example.

No. There are many Caucasians in Russia, especially in Moscow. Many of them speak "limited Russian", and everybody understands them. They can learn at schools and institute and get work... One of my friends wanted to get a new work recently. He is a native Russian speaker, he owns a flat in Moscow... And he couldn't get this work because there were Caucasian workers who wanted to get this work too.

You can't, really: All that we can hear is that it is a Slavic accent: Russian and Serbian accent sounds absolutely the same in English.

They do not. For example, Russians devoice final consonants, while Serbs do not. There is vowel reduction in Russian but there isn't in Serbian. Serbs do not palatalize consonants before [i].

Some Russian vowels that are a bit like a mix of two different vowels (from my perspective).

Do you mean they are pronounced like diphtongs? Or what? Could you give some examples?

Originally Posted by Marcus

They do not. For example, Russians devoice final consonants, while Serbs do not. There is vowel reduction in Russian but there isn't in Serbian. Serbs do not palatalize consonants before [i].

Do you mean they are pronounced like diphtongs? Or what? Could you give some examples?

For my ear this fake Russian sounds like a Bulgarian or in some phrases even like French. How this does this abracadabra sound for non-native Russian talkers?

with the exception of some countries they have been at war with.

No. This doesn't matter at all.

Interesting. To me it sounds like a parody to Western Slavic languages - Czech or Polish. I would not guess that it's supposed to be Russian.

Вот, кстати, классная лекция по фонетике русского языка. Очень интересно пародируются иностранные акценты (в частности американский).
Я сам узнал много нового о фонетике русского языка. Не предполагал, что у нас два звука "р", а ведь так и есть.

классная лекция по фонетике русского языка

Серьезно ее воспринимать нельзя. Естественно, что аллофоны не считают разными фонемами. Про благозвучие, неудивительно, что не хотят признавать. В английском, конечно, есть звук гласный как в дядя. Русский язык миллион вещей утратил.

Ну, субъективность тут - часть жанра. Чтобы повосхищаться чем-то, надо обязательно подчеркнуть уникальность - такой художественный прием. И сделал это он не очень красиво - за счет других. Сколько бишь там гласных звуков мог отчетливо произнести профессор Хиггинс? Сто тридцать?

Но в целом идея выступления мне близка. Обкрадывают нас - и фонетически, и лексически, и грамматически, и даже синтаксически. Хотя лингвисты в этом не виноваты. В школе учат сознательно упрощенному варианту, минимуму - просто чтобы до каждого дошло. А потом этот самый каждый решает, что познал истину в высшей инстанции и начинает агрессивно выступать за "грамотность," разумея под этим какой-то уродский выхолощенный канцелярит.

А вот, кстати, в школе канцеляриту не учат. Это уже потом на рабочем месте. Типа занюханные бюрократы - большие начальники, хозяева жизни. Думай как они, говори как они, это - правильно и грамотно.

Despite the fact that the man in the video says nonsense, it's worth listening how he pronounces рррррь - few Russians can do it. Americans, is he imitating your accent correctly?

Originally Posted by Marcus

Despite the fact that the man in the video says nonsense, it's worth listening how he pronounces рррррь - few Russians can do it. Americans, is he imitating your accent correctly?

Whay exactly as you think is nonsense in his lecture? Which ideas concretly?

It DOES sound like a parody of Slavic languages, possibly Russian, but the rolling Rs are missing - that's a very obvious characteristic of Slavic langauges!
I can hear that this is not a genuine language and that they are making it up.

However, I can't tell the difference between ANY Slavic languages other than Russian and Polish (and as of lately, also Ukrainian and Belarussian.)

I couldn't say whether someone was speaking Czech or Slovakian or Serbian, Slovenian or Bulgarian....

I have learnt to recognize Romanian - not hard. But that is not really Slavic language, it just has some slavic words in it.

Can you Russian speakers differentiate between those langauges?

But pretty much all Western European languages are immediately recognizable, even if I don't speak them. A few small minority languages would be unrecognizable, but none of the national languages.

Can you Russian speakers differentiate between those langauges?

I can. Czech and Slovak have very many stressed Rs and Ls - syllabic consonants. Bulgarian sounds similar to Russian (free stress, vowel reduction, palatalized consonats), Serbian I know a little. It depends whether you heard those languages much or not. Most Russians never listen to other Slavic languages, probably can recognize only Ukrainian and Belorussian.

Originally Posted by Marcus

I can. Czech and Slovak have very many stressed Rs and Ls - syllabic consonants. Bulgarian sounds similar to Russian (free stress, vowel reduction, palatalized consonats), Serbian I know a little. It depends whether you heard those languages much or not. Most Russians never listen to other Slavic languages, probably can recognize only Ukrainian and Belorussian.

I once knew a Bulgarian guy who could speak fluent Russian. I was extremely impressed by this at the time, and asked him lots of questions about it - how he had learnt etc.
Remember him saying that Russians he knew in London usually didn't realise that he was from Bulgaria at all, but thought that he was a native Russian speaker. That seemed very strange to me - he had never actually lived in any Russian speaking country, only learnt it in school and apparently used it a bit at university and early in his career. Perhaps Bulgarian is so similar to Russian but I found this very odd. Was on a blind date with this guy and was just grasping for topics of conversation which was how this came up! Lol!

Originally Posted by Hanna

I once knew a Bulgarian guy who could speak fluent Russian. I was extremely impressed by this at the time, and asked him lots of questions about it - how he had learnt etc.
Remember him saying that Russians he knew in London usually didn't realise that he was from Bulgaria at all, but thought that he was a native Russian speaker. That seemed very strange to me - he had never actually lived in any Russian speaking country, only learnt it in school and apparently used it a bit at university and early in his career. Perhaps Bulgarian is so similar to Russian but I found this very odd. Was on a blind date with this guy and was just grasping for topics of conversation which was how this came up! Lol!

That might individual, some people are good at accent, worked on it a lot. There was a girl at my grade in the university, a Bulgarian, and she has certain accent. She does not soften some consonants (like м in книгами), she reduces all the unstressed As to schwas (хъръшо while we say хърашо), ш and ж are a little bit softened, ы is not clear.
My brother's girlfriend is Bulgarian, she speaks accentless Russian, but she probably lived in Russia for a long time.

but the rolling Rs are missing

They are present. It sounds similar to Russian. The obvious wrong thing is that ш, ж are not hard enough, they are semi-soft.

Oh yes, I just realised that this thread was started by none other than myself, a couple of years ago! I can answer my own question now, I think.

Well, I can say now that for Ukrainians and Belarussians they are VERY nice and patient with people who speak poor Russian. Particularly Ukrainians. Apart from three minor incidents, I had no problem at all travelling in this region and speaking only Russian with people. The three incidents were with officials. And my Russian is really appalling. My grammar is terrible. Everyone was kind and helpful, or neutral. Several people went to great lengths to help me.

Try this approach in Paris and people will be ruder than you could ever imagine! People in Sweden would simply ignore somebody who speaks the language as poorly as I speak Russian.

I think Russian "language snobbism" is directed more towards native speakers, or maybe "nearly" native speakers. Clearly, educated Russians are very proud of their language and do not like to see it abused or dumbed down. But they are not snobbish towards learners from other countries.

Когда поляки говорят по-русски они перевирают все ударения, и из-за этого становится трудно понять о чем речь. У нас учитель был поляк, ух это было нечто (и мы подшучивали над его смешными грамматическими оборотами).

Originally Posted by mishau_

Когда поляки говорят по-русски они перевирают все ударения, и из-за этого становится трудно понять о чем речь. У нас учитель был поляк, ух это было нечто (и мы подшучивали над его смешными грамматическими оборотами).

Вчера видел по ТВ интервью с каким-то режиссером и Валерием Золотухиным первые две-три минуты я думал что это говорит русский, только потом я услышал неслько слов употребленных не совсем точно и посмотрел на титры, когда и понял что это не русский а поляк Кшиштоф Занусси.