Thread: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?

Originally Posted by Lampada

Originally Posted by JohnSmith

I would say the fluent/native Russian speakers on this board are snobs. They don't want to help someone learn.

Oh, this is funny! We are snobs because we did not wanted to make an audio for you to be able to say in Russian "Your ass is really gorgeous and I want to lick you all over".
Give us a break, will you?

Wow, if you read it and did not provide audio, you really are a snob. No will not "give you a break." The forum is not a place for your opinion on the value added quality of a given phrase, simply to speak it audibly.

Don't blame for your non existent sex life. "Lampada"...what a name. Hahaha, oh brother.

Originally Posted by Иван из космоса

Originally Posted by Johanna

Funny clip about Russian lessons for Russians... (it's so hard that not even natives can speak it!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwovxKeMbY

Dear Lord, this is absolutely terrifying.

Wow. There ARE a lot of pitfalls in Russian (as in any other language), but these lessons look more like extra-help for failed students. There's nothing especially complex about examples which we can see on the board, kids study this at school when they are 10-14 years old.

Sadly, due to decreasing quality of education and other factors many native speakers can't spell correctly even to save their lifes. They are butchering Russian language, and they are spreading like a plague. As a result there are more 'language snobs' in Russia and CIS than ever. Most of them are members of this forum. Be warned. ))))
On the other hand Russians are usually much less snobish about mistakes made by RSL learners. There are too few foreigners willing to study Russian to scare them away. So you can expect to be encouraged, not berated.

Wow, if you read it and did not provide audio, you really are a snob.

Hey, do you know what "snob" is?

Originally Posted by JohnSmith

The forum is not a place for your opinion on the value added quality of a given phrase, simply to speak it audibly.

The forum is for our, natives' opinions about phrases and our wish or unwillingness to 'speak audibly' or not to do that with a phrase. We are not at work here and are not your subordinates so that you could tell us what we must do.

The fact that this guy sits and resarches such phrases on Christmas Day, really says it all... If he wants to know how to say this properly, let him learn Russian from scratch!

Also, I can't imagine it will get any woman, Russian or not, interested in a stranger unless she was paid for it... In which case she's not going to care about your pronounciation anyway.

The native speakers on this forum are fantastically helpful and definitely not arrogant in their view of learners. It is your own request that is arrogant and snobbish!
What makes you assume that Russian speaking women would like to hear this phrase from you? I suggest you start learning basic everyday phrases instead.

Originally Posted by Johanna

Random funny person speaking Russian: A female medical student from Asia..
What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEUfE7YIsU

Thanks, Johanna, I really enjoyed this video. This girl is very good. There are minor grammar mistakes (even after 5 years in Russia), but they don't muddle the meaning. Her accent is not strong (it sounds pleasant, in fact), and some words sound almost like they are pronounced by a native speaker. What I liked the most is that despite all the shortcomings her speech feels natural, and not forced.

Yeah, actually she has another video too.

I thought she was an interesting case because she explains in her comments that she travelled to Russia to study medicine in Russian without knowing any more Russian than basic greetings!

Frankly this seems very bold! But the gamble paid off, because five years later she's close to graduation. Personally I had terrible trouble reading Economics litterature in English at university - and that was after years and years of school English and exposure via TV.

If she joined a regular Russian medical school together with native speakers and managed to keep up, then it's really an outstanding accomplishment.

Originally Posted by Johanna

Yeah, actually she has another video too.

Yeah, I watched all her videos. )
Also while looking for examples of English accent I stumbled upon a video from an Italian guy, who studied Russian for 3 years. His pronunciation is nearly PERFECT, and his Russian is great. I think any RSL learner needs to see this motivating video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeAzNE0RqX4

But I must admit that all Italians I've heard spoke Russian clearly, even if they knew only a few words. It's probably because our languages are rather close phonetically. I've heard the same thing about Venezuelan people.

Interesting!
I understood about 80-90% of what he's saying but I could not speak that fast without making mistakes, unless i had prepared the speech beforehand.

When I feel bold enough (and am able to speak comprehensively ) I will upload a video for you to "judge".

What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian. He's not using any of the "backwards" sounding phrases and expressions that are confusing to people who are not from a Slavic speaking country. I.e. sentences that seem like they start from the end... Also he is not using any colloquial speech or any of the "confusing" expressions that don't make sense in literal translation.... So he is making it rather easy for himself.

I have studied since May now, on and off... In three years time I think I will be able to match his standard, and with a passable pronounciation too.

To me, the bending of the verbs and all the different bending of nouns are the biggest challenges.

Interesting to hear your view that Italians are able to sound good with they speak Russian! When I browsed the Russian videos I came across one with a French girl. She wasn't able to do rolling Rs and it sounded very strange to hear Russian with throat Rs!

Originally Posted by Johanna

In Scandinavian films "mysterious strangers" often have a Russian accent... For example in films about old times, people with magical powers sound like they are Russian. Also mysterious people whose intentions are unclear (I.e. is the person really good or really bad...?)

lol I listened to a radio adaptation of "A Hobbit" once and the trolls seemed to speak with a Russian accent... At least, their [r] seemed to be Russian. But then, Spanish [r] is the same as Russian, as far as I know...

Originally Posted by Johanna

When I browsed the Russian videos I came across one with a French girl. She wasn't able to do rolling Rs and it sounded very strange to hear Russian with throat Rs!

That's what I must sound like -- I have a French [r]. (In Russian to pronounce [r] like this is called "картавить" or "грассировать"). This is not such a horrible defect, though. I know a lot of people who can't pronounce [r] correctly and after being acquainted with them for some time I absolutely stop noticing and sometimes forget altogether that they have any peculiarity of speech. And I never was teased about it at school either. The Russian [r] pronounced with the tip of the tongue is supposed to be the most difficult sound for children to master and if the incorrect pronunciation settles early on, it's very difficult to change. I can pronounce this sound now in separate words but not integrate it in fast speech. The soft/wet [r] is more difficult especially the [ри] syllable. Can't say it for the life of me -- and it's used quite often: in names like Ирина, in words три, рис and so on. So French [r] it is for me.
If you can pronounce the Russian [r], my respect to you, Johanna.

As for the snobbishness question... Since Russian is not widely spoken abroad (except for the ex-USSR countries) and is notorious for its difficulty, I think most Russians would greatly appreciate and encourage anybody who tries to speak our language. Besides, Russians are supposed to be very hospitable. I don't understand where the whole "language snobbishness" would spring at all. Unless we are talking of capitals like Paris or London where people might be plain tired of hordes of tourists. (I don't know how things stand there, that's just what I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere).

When I feel bold enough (and am able to speak comprehensively ) I will upload a video for you to "judge".

That would be great.

Originally Posted by Johanna

What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian. He's not using any of the "backwards" sounding phrases and expressions that are confusing to people who are not from a Slavic speaking country. I.e. sentences that seem like they start from the end... Also he is not using any colloquial speech or any of the "confusing" expressions that don't make sense in literal translation.... So he is making it rather easy for himself.

I didn't pay attention to that, I'll need to watch it again. But my overall impression was that he's Russian is not overly simplified or 'textbook' Russian, but rather 'ordinary', natural one. He got tired at the end, and made a bunch of serious grammar mistakes, but apart from that it was really impressive. I wish i could learn a language like that in a meager 1,5-3 years (he mentioned in one of his comment that he studied Russian actively only for 1,5 years, and then dropped it)

I believe that with proper motivation and dedication almost anyone can learn any language to near fluent level (the problem is that few people have either). There were articles about a Russian girl who won the first prize in a worldwide Chinese language competition. The punch line is that she studied Chinese only for 2 years (from scratch), and achieved a truly impressive level (Chinese representatives commented that she was close to a native speaker level) ! So... anything is possible.

Personally I am too unfocused and lose interest too fast to master any language, even though I really like foreign languages and have an inkling to learning them (when I tried, I progressed really fast, but.. I always failed because of lack of motivation.. Never moved past lesson 8 in a ny textbook ). I know English only because I studied it at school and kinda had no choice, and I know Ukrainian only because it's on TV all the time.. It is sad, really. So I admire people who learn Russian (or any other language) and who don't give up. Good luck, guys!

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

But I must admit that all Italians I've heard spoke Russian clearly, even if they knew only a few words. It's probably because our languages are rather close phonetically. I've heard the same thing about Venezuelan people.

Italians say that Russian accent is usually hard to understand. It makes speech slow and heavy in their opinion. Though for Russian Italian pronunciation is very clear no matter of which language is spoken.

Originally Posted by Johanna

What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian.

Я, бообще, согласен с тобой, но давай не будем слишком строги к нему. Ему не о чём рассказывать, кроме общих мест, а что сделать? Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски, то я бы тоже не знал, что сказать. «Привет, меня зовут так, мне столько лет, я живу там, я очень люблю Россия,... Ой, извините, Россию... А вот я учу русский столько времени... Я говорю и по французскому... Или по-французски? Ах! Русская грамматика самая трудная! и т.п.»
Вместе с тем, он, по-видимому, никак не приготовился, прежде чем снял. А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее. Нечестно было бы решить, что я совсем неспособен к русскому языку, судя по тому, как плохо я говорю на нём, когда я не готов.
Так что я бы не заключил из видео, что he is making it easy for himself. Надо бы посмотреть длиннее видео, где он бы не был один, и действительно говорил о чём-нибудь. А он ведь сам говорит, что ему не с кем говорить там по-русски.

(Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)

Originally Posted by Zubr

Ему не о чем рассказывать

нé о чем

Originally Posted by Zubr

(Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)

Really? It's very interesting. Thanks for your input!

He is speaking Dutch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i269amtNlbs
Johanna, can you tell us if he's any good?

Originally Posted by Zubr

Я_ вообще-то_ согласен с тобой, но давай не будем слишком строги к нему. Ему не о чем рассказывать, кроме общих мест, а что _делать? Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски, то я бы тоже не знал, что сказать. «Привет, меня зовут так-то, мне столько-то лет, я живу там-то, я очень люблю Россия,... Ой, извините, Россию... А вот я учу русский столько-то времени... Я говорю и по французскому... Или по-французски? Ах! Русская грамматика самая трудная! и т.п.»
Вместе с тем, он, по-видимому, никак не приготовился, прежде чем снял этот клип (здесь нужно дополнение). А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее. Нечестно было бы решить, что я совсем неспособен к русскому языку, судя по тому, как плохо я говорю на нём, когда я не готов.
Так что я бы не заключил из видео, что he is making it easy for himself. Надо бы посмотреть видео подлиннее, где он бы не был один, и действительно говорил о чём-нибудь. А он ведь сам говорит, что ему не с кем говорить там по-русски.

(Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)

Zubr, тебе надо срочно читать современную русскую литературу или смотреть современные фильмы. Ты пишешь на устаревшем русском, как будто это абзац из Лермонтова или Пушкина. Это выглядит довольно странно, и думаю, тебе надо об этом сказать.

Вот, например, этот абзац:
А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее.
Я не стала ничего исправлять, потому что представила себе, что это фрагмент из какой-нибудь повести XIX века, и всё показалось правильным. Но сегодня люди так не говорят, такие фразы в сегодняшней речи звучат неестественно. Я бы "перевела" это на современный русский примерно так:
А я заметил, что если [s:1d18a5ak]начну[/s:1d18a5ak] начинаю разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, [s:1d18a5ak]вначале[/s:1d18a5ak] сначала мне очень трудно выговаривать [s:1d18a5ak]всякое[/s:1d18a5ak] каждое слово, а [s:1d18a5ak]после некоторого времени[/s:1d18a5ak] через какое-то время, [s:1d18a5ak]как[/s:1d18a5ak] когда заговорюсь, [s:1d18a5ak]так[/s:1d18a5ak] я совсем [s:1d18a5ak]забуду[/s:1d18a5ak] забываю, на каком языке говорю. [s:1d18a5ak]Тут-то я буду говорить без труда[/s:1d18a5ak] И тогда я говорю легко, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, [s:1d18a5ak]а между тем[/s:1d18a5ak] и/но при этом их соблюдая, более или менее.

Фраза "Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски" тоже звучит устаревше. Я бы сказала "Если бы я решил показать, как я говорю по-русски"

Lol, my language is Swedish, not Dutch. But Devochka on this forum is from Belgium and her mother tongue is Dutch. She can probably comment.

Originally Posted by Johanna

Lol, my language is Swedish, not Dutch. But Devochka on this forum is from Belgium and her mother tongue is Dutch. She can probably comment.

Oh, sorry.
I thought that you mentioned somewhere that you can speak Norvegian and Dutch a little. I probably misunderstood.

Oh - you just mixed up Dutch and Danish... It's Danish that I can speak... Just because it's so similar to Swedish.

In fact, the name of the language "Dutch" is incredibly confusing, so it is not surprising that you mixed it up! It sounds nothing like any of the places where it's spoke: Holland, Netherlands, Flanders etc... I have no idea why it has such a strange name...

Originally Posted by Johanna

Oh - you just mixed up Dutch and Danish... It's Danish that I can speak...

Ahhh.. How embarassing. ^_^ Thanks for the correction.