Thread: dialects

The English spoken in New York and Texas differ too little to be considered "dialects." It's true that there is a different accent in these regions but the English is more or less the same. Some people consider "Ebonics" to be a dialect, but I wouldn't really be too sure about that. Perhaps it's not the best example, but look at the last couple of posts by VM in the topic "Russian Birthday Party."

What is Ebonics? Where is that spoken?

Originally Posted by Pravit

Originally Posted by Линдзи

I don't know if it'd qualify as a dialect, but there's definitely a "Tex-Mex" language down here in southern Texas. It's not Spanglish - it's this bizzaro code-switching. Businesses do the Spanglish thing to be cutesy ("Really Bueno!" on the gas station signs? Ouch ouch ouch) but people will actually say things like, for example, "watchale" instead of "watch out"...

I've heard(and seen) things like that, but I certainly wouldn't call it a dialect. If so, then 1337 is also a dialect and the Summer Language Institute should be scrambling to CounterStrike servers.

If 1337 is a dialect Ill have to try for my Ph.D this spring.

Originally Posted by smartdude

Originally Posted by Pravit

Originally Posted by Линдзи

I don't know if it'd qualify as a dialect, but there's definitely a "Tex-Mex" language down here in southern Texas. It's not Spanglish - it's this bizzaro code-switching. Businesses do the Spanglish thing to be cutesy ("Really Bueno!" on the gas station signs? Ouch ouch ouch) but people will actually say things like, for example, "watchale" instead of "watch out"...

I've heard(and seen) things like that, but I certainly wouldn't call it a dialect. If so, then 1337 is also a dialect and the Summer Language Institute should be scrambling to CounterStrike servers.

If 1337 is a dialect Ill have to try for my Ph.D this spring.

What is this 1337-thing? I keep hearing it on the forum but I

some modern expression between teenagers

Kamion, you're such a nerd.

I believe Wikipedia has an article on the subject. I don't think anyone actually uses it as "slang" now, it's mostly used for humor purposes.

Translation:
l0l0 j0r farg0rt n00b 1337 0r m0rt0rn expr3ssi0rt. 1337 0r ph!l0s0ph0rt. ph0rs0rph0rt0rn of n00b g0rt pwn0red 1337 h4x

Ah....classical 0r dialect at its best!

Way too many people at my school use it as a primary method of communication.

Example:
1-D00d whats up n00b.
2-OMFG u are such a fagx0r.
1-Double you tee eff?
2-U f00b, I pwn j00!
1-Don't make me TeeKay(Team Kill) you m0f0.
2-Dude, man, that ain't cool man.

Way too many people at my school use it as a primary method of communication.

Goodness.

2-Dude, man, that ain't cool man.

That isn't 1337!

1-D00d whats up n00b.
2-OMFG u are such a fagx0r.
1-Double you tee eff?
2-U f00b, I pwn j00!
1-Don't make me TeeKay(Team Kill) you m0f0.

These are examples of what would be called "lam0rsp34k."

BTW, I'm sick of that blasted penguin with the laptop. That is the icon of everyone and his dog these days. Although it's a marked improvement over "dork wearing sunglasses and beanie."

Originally Posted by Pravit

[
BTW, I'm sick of that blasted penguin with the laptop. That is the icon of everyone and his dog these days. Although it's a marked improvement over "dork wearing sunglasses and beanie."

1. it wasnt a beanie
2. it was from a very popular indie film

Indie films are fux0r3d up.

Hi!

The reason I stated Spanglish might be considered a dialect, is because there is a filologist called Ilan Stavans who has translated Don Quijote to Spanglish, in order to legitimate, what he considers to be, a dialect coming from the crossbreeding of Spanish and English.

Another interesting fact is that he has compiled a dictionary with 6000 words. And though he accepts Spanglish lacks a formal structure he sustains that it is spoken by almost 25 million people living in the US-Mexico border and in the future will develop and become a language.

The translation by Mr. Stavans has been considered a joke by the Spanish Royal Academy of Language (I belive he has been excomunicated!!!). I haven

I actually don't find Spanglish (or, rather, Tejano) offensive at all. Kind of funny at times, but not offensive. It's the natural result of the shifting US-Texas border. Then again, I'm not much of a linguistic purist, so I've never understood why people get their panties in a twist over language drift and word borrowing.

i don't think spanglish is a breed of spanish and english because most english speakers can't understand spanglish.

Maybe they can understand 50 %

I don't really care about Spanglish, but I can understand most of it despite never having studied Spanish. If people held everyday conversations consisting entirely of "Spanglish", I'd be less skeptical about calling it a dialect, but from what I've heard, it's mainly conversations in Spanish with a few "Spanglish" words thrown in(or vice versa). Of course, since I don't really know Spanish that well, I can't say how "standard" the "standard" parts of their Spanish conversations are. Has anyone heard English-like structure from people speaking "Spanglish"? Perhaps it is more widespread in Texas than here, although about 60% of the population of my hometown is Hispanic.

About dialects not having a grammar and a formal structure, I wouldn't be too sure about that. Dialects may have a very defined and rigid structure, it's just that oftentimes nobody writes down what exactly these structures are. The main distinguishing feature of a dialect is how it differs from what is considered the "standard dialect."

Perhaps in a hundred years or so there will arise a creole language of Spanish and English that you might call a "dialect", but in my opinion "Spanglish" is just a gimmick language people use either to sound cute or when they can't remember the proper word in the other language. There are plenty of Russian words that have been "adapted" from English, however, I don't think this would be grounds for the existence of "Russglish."

Oh, "Spanglish" is totally a stupid gimmick thing in most of the US, but it's significantly different near the border here. For one thing, it's systematic - there are conventions about which words appear in which language, which ones are mixtures, which grammatical elements come from which language, etc. I believe that's one of the determining factors of whether a variant is considered a true dialect or not. It's not just a matter of throwing in a word from one language if you can't recall it in the other.

Also, a lot of the words are totally invented. My favorite thus far is "troque" for "truck." I also like the rather sketchy use of the word "carpeta" to mean "carpet" and not "file folder." (A truck in Spanish is "camion" and a carpet is "alfombra," incidentally).

Perhaps. You do realize that Las Cruces, New Mexico is around 50 miles away from the Mexican border, right? Well, our "Spanglish" does not really seem like a dialect, but I suppose I can't speak for "Texas Spanglish." Texans...

About invented words, I make up tons of "Russian" words from English when I'm not careful. As well as "false friends" and so on.

I'm kind of curious, in your area of New Mexico Pravit do some people there speak Spanish?

Originally Posted by Pravit

Perhaps. You do realize that Las Cruces, New Mexico is around 50 miles away from the Mexican border, right? Well, our "Spanglish" does not really seem like a dialect, but I suppose I can't speak for "Texas Spanglish." Texans...

About invented words, I make up tons of "Russian" words from English when I'm not careful. As well as "false friends" and so on.

I think the difference is that this part of Texas WAS Mexico 150 years ago, when they switched the border again, at which point a lot of the local residents metaphorically threw up their hands and yelled "SCREW IT!" and declined to move south of the new border. Down here a lot of the Latino families have been in the area FOREVER. So it's not simply a matter of people moving around, it's a matter of the same people living in the same area, with a new national tongue decending upon them. (And yes, I know that the US doesn't have a national language, but c'mon. English is the de facto official language.) It seems to make a difference culturally, which makes a difference linguistically, methinks. It's a different kind of assimilation, and a different kind of linguistic assimilation...

The thing about the invented words is that they're consistent. Everyone calls trucks (camiones) "troques." It's the correct word for them here. Same goes for any number of other words. I'm nigh fluent in Spanish, and obviously I'm fluent in English, but I still don't get what people are talking about a lot of the time - because it's not just a mix, it's different. I don't know - it's hard to explain. Creole-esque, in any case. I don't think it's as distinctly developed as Creole, though.

Originally Posted by Евгения Белякова

I'm kind of curious, in your area of New Mexico Pravit do some people there speak Spanish?

\

d00d, not to be derisive, but it's called Las Cruces. And it's in the state of New MEXICO. These are clues that hint at the answer to your question.

Thank you Lindsay.