Thread: What do you think about Poland.

Originally Posted by Johanna

By the way, we fought Sweden too. (I'm sorry, couldn't resist that).

Haha, yeah you took Finland and the Baltic States !

I think Ramil was talking about Great Nothern War (18th century).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Northern_War

I think that most people do not know much about Poland from their own experience (there are not a lot of Poles around ). General sentiments (in my opinion) are: Polish policy towards Russia is not friendly, Poles are ok, they are just like us, but they are probably a bit hostile at the moment. Very few people ever tried Polish food, Polish literature and cinema are better known. Murders in Katyn are real and it's a crime, but it was all Stalin's fault and modern Russia has nothing to do with it.
What else? Ah. Jokes about Poles are NOT popular in Russia. I'd say there are NO genuinely Russian jokes about Poles altogether (nor about Czechs, or Bulgarians, or other Eastern Europeans). Russian preferred to joke about themselves, other ethnic groups who lived in Soviet union (Georgians, Chukchas, Baltic people etc.) and "Westerners" (Americans, Brits and so on).

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I'd say there are NO genuinely Russian jokes about Poles altogether

http://yandex.ru/yandsearch?text=%F0%F3 ... %EA&lr=213

Хм.. думаю, два-три малоизвестных анекдота погоды не делают. Я уверена, если подойти к человеку на улице и попросить рассказать анекдот про поляка, 99,99% не смогут ничего вспомнить. Нераспространены они.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Хм.. думаю, два-три малоизвестных анекдота погоды не делают. Я уверена, если подойти к человеку на улице и попросить рассказать анекдот про поляка, 99,99% не смогут ничего вспомнить. Нераспространены они.

У нас в саду и школе - это была самая распространненая троица, наряду с парой "русский и американец".
Времена поменялись, сейчас популярны другие.
Надо подходить не к тинэйджерам, а их родителям

Originally Posted by Wowik

У нас в саду и школе - это была самая распространненая троица, наряду с парой "русский и американец".
Времена поменялись, сейчас популярны другие.
Надо подходить не к тинэйджерам, а их родителям

Интересно. Может, тут географическая составляющая играет роль? Там, где я росла, не рассказывали таких. У нас были русский, американец и (кто угодно), но не поляк. Поляки не воспринимались как иностранцы в принципе. Чего про них рассказывать? Они не были ни экзотикой, ни чем-то обыденным. Так, ни рыба, ни мясо. ))

Эх! Да что там поляки! Сейчас про Петьку с Василием Ивановичем уже не рассказывают!
Дети не знают кто это такие! Фильм-то они не видели! Даже если и показывали, так он черно-былый!
Тинейджеры такие фильмы просто не смотрят. Переключаются на MTV.
И не все из них знают, что есть такая страна - Польша. А если и знают, то на карте не найдут.

Originally Posted by Wowik

Эх! Да что там поляки! Сейчас про Петьку с Василием Ивановичем уже не рассказывают![...]

Да причем тут "сейчас", я про 80-е говорю. Или ты меня в тинейджеры записал?
А Петька с В.И. - да, это был хит (и чем младше дети, тем неприличнее были анекдоты).

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

я про 80-е говорю

На советско-польской границе на ветке дерева сидит ворона.
С советской стороны прилетает воробей и садится рядом отдохнуть.
Ворона ему говорит: — Ты чего в Польшу-то собрался? Там у них жрать нечего, забастовки, "Солидарность"...
Воробей отвечает: — Знаю, но больно почирикать охота.

Originally Posted by Wowik

На советско-польской границе на ветке дерева сидит ворона.
С советской стороны прилетает воробей и садится рядом отдохнуть.
Ворона ему говорит: — Ты чего в Польшу-то собрался? Там у них жрать нечего, забастовки, "Солидарность"...
Воробей отвечает: — Знаю, но больно почирикать охота.

Имхо, это анекдот не про поляков, а про русских. )

Я тоже не слышал анекдотов про поляков в семидесятые-восьмидесятые. Да и после этого русских анекдотов про поляков не слышал. Только американские.

Originally Posted by translationsnmru

Я тоже не слышал анекдотов про поляков в семидесятые-восьмидесятые.

Странно, куча анекдотов начиналась "Немец, русский и поляк..."

А у нас анекоты о русских очень популярны. Может сейчас поменее чем 10 лет тому назад, но всё-таки, на каким-либо польском сайте с шутками легко их найти.

Originally Posted by MichauPOL

W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie,i Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie że chrząsz brzmi w trzcinie.... Can you say that??

Uh oh.
I was thinking about learning one more foreign language, and Polish seemed like a nice, easy option. I estimated that as a native Russian speaker I'll be able to hold a conversation in 2-3 months and to become nearly fluent in about 6 months of regular studies (or slightly more).

Now I'm not so sure. Does anyone wish to start studying Polish with me as an experiment?

I've been studying Russian pretty intensively (university degree) for 5 years now, I'm nowhere near fluent, and frankly speaking - losing the hope I will ever be. I am able to hold a conversation, but not on a very complicated level (discussing science and technology is definitely out of question! ). Then again, I have come across a theory that it's easier for the Russians to acquire Polish, than the other way round, so who knows

Are you seriuos? This is shocking! Polish is full of words that are similar to Russian words and the grammar seems similar too. Where is the challenge for you?
Five years at uni, and you don't think you are fluent...
Could it be that you are too harsh on yourself?

If so, what hope is there for me? I am not even a speaker of another Slavic language like you are, and already failed it once, at school (although this time I am motivated). In fact, my teacher in Russian at school said that anyone could learn it in 3 years if they were committed (this was based on his own experiences I think). This stuck in my mind, and I was envisaging being at a decent level three years from now.
But he might have been talking about completely different circumstances.

But the grammar really is devilish. (for me) A year after starting I'd be hard pressed to hold down a very basic conversation. Anything I said would be riddled with grammatical errors.

Another thing, Kamka, surely English is MORE different from Polish than Russian is, therefore it ought to be faster for you to learn Russian than English... Or?

Knowing a Slavic language does help!
I've met two Polish guys once, they had been studying Russian for 5 months, and their Russian was good enough for a comfortable casual conversation. Even if their vocabulary was slightly limited and there were some grammar errors, it did not hinder understanding at all. Pronounciation was good enough too, way better, than some English speakers had after the same period of studying (it definitely helped that they were able to roll their R's and to palatalize consonants).

Perhaps I should clarify that for me, being fluent means being able to express yourself without any major obstacles (vocabulary-, grammar-, phonetics- wise), and this I have not yet achieved in Russian. I can pretty much understand whatever is being said to me (by native speakers, I don't count the foreigners cos I always find it easier to understand the foreigners), but my active knowledge of the language is just not satisfactory for my liking. Of course, I can, more or less, speak the language and be understood, although sometimes with the help of gestures or descriptive language. Which reminds me of a situation, while being in Moscow, we had very little time to see the Исторический музей, and we were very eager to take a look at царские кареты, not knowing how to say it, I explained we were looking for что-то в роде царских машин, но с лошадьми. Was I understood? Yes. Was I happy with my Russian? No. Funnily enough, каретa is kareta in Polish.
Anyhow, of course knowing a Slavic language helps, I have never denied that. But assuming that just because I am a native speaker of Polish (or any other language from the same family, for that matter) I should have not problems with Russian is not entirely true, as that in itself causes problems of its own nature, and that is linguistic interference. I have not encountered this with English as the languages were simply too different to try to copy the grammatical structures, word-formation rules and so on, and so forth. With Russian it's just too tempting at times - you have no idea how many times we all tried to say Polish words with Russian accent and hope to pull it off.
A lot of people in Poland think they know Russian pretty good because they can more or less communicate with the Russian speaking people at markets in here, not realizing that the language they use is a mixture of Polish and Russian (e.g. Я понимаю, але не мувю так хорошо; where "ale" stands for "but", and mówju - "speak" with a Russian ending for the 1st sing., it'd be "mówię" in Polish).

Perhaps in my case it might also be the fact I study two languages at the same time (applied linguistics, English & Russian) that slows down the process, or the fact I had a year off during which I practically spoke no Russian whatsoever. But, truth be told, I'd say I'm not worse than most of the studens in my year. I do find it just a myth to be able to master ANY language in a rather short period of time. If somebody wishes to be FLUENT, I believe it takes years and years of practice, preferably in a country where it's being spoken on everyday basis. And I don't think I'm being harsh on myself, I just think once I decide to devote five years of my life to something, I don't just want to be average and able to hold a conversation, I want to be good.

I wouldn't say it was easier for me to learn English, because I can't compare those two situations. Firstly, I've been studying English ever since I was like 11, and it's just this much faster for children to acquire languages, secondly, we are all constatnly exposed to English, by means of music, films or even commercials, thirdly, I had a chance to master it when living in the UK for a while.

Gromozeka I was surprised to hear that you only met two Poles that you can remember! Poland is a neighbouring country of Ukraine! I would have thought you'd come across Polish people regularly?

I meet Polish people all the time in the UK - lots of Poles work here... In Sweden I occasionally met Poles too.

In fact, if hear a Slavic accent, I usually assume the person is Polish.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Gromozeka I was surprised to hear that you only met two Poles that you can remember! Poland is a neighbouring country of Ukraine! I would have thought you'd come across Polish people regularly?

I meet Polish people all the time in the UK - lots of Poles work here... In Sweden I occasionally met Poles too.

In fact, if hear a Slavic accent, I usually assume the person is Polish.

Hahaha. I guess Poles prefer to move westwards. As for me, I never met a Pole in my life.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Gromozeka I was surprised to hear that you only met two Poles that you can remember! Poland is a neighbouring country of Ukraine! I would have thought you'd come across Polish people regularly?
I meet Polish people all the time in the UK - lots of Poles work here... In Sweden I occasionally met Poles too.

You are lucky. I have not met a Pole for the last 15 years. There are probably more chances to meet a Polish person in the Western Ukraine near the border, but I live at the Eastern part of the country. No Poles here.

Poles are definitely not interested in working in Ukraine (Polish salaries are higher, and it's Western Ukrainians, who actively seek "Polish" jobs).