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Thread: Help me to rewrite a sentence

  1. #1
    Administrator MasterAdmin's Avatar
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    Help me to rewrite a sentence

    This sentence seems to have several grammatical mistakes and just doesn't go smoothly together. How could I rewrite it to sound more natural?
    The parts of the sentences that seem to be bad grammar are underlined.

    In addition, one who knows his native language perfectly and can express his ideas precisely and grammatically correct will have more advantages.
    ~ Мастерадминов Мастерадмин Мастерадминович ~

  2. #2
    Почтенный гражданин bitpicker's Avatar
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    In addition, someone who knows his native language perfectly and can express his ideas in a precise fashion and using correct grammar will have the advantage.

    Assuming here that you are speaking in a general fashion. 'Advantage' isn't often used as a countable noun, usually it is used in the singular.

    Robin
    Спасибо за исправления!

    Вам нравится этот форум, и вы изучаете немецкий язык? Вот похожий форум о немецком языке.

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    Завсегдатай rockzmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    Technically, according to Word and WP, there's nothing wrong with the sentence.

    I was not certain if your aim was for writing skills, speaking skills or both. So, I tried fooling around with it and this is what I came up with:

    Try #1
    In addition, one who is fluent in his native language and can express their ideas with precision and correct grammar will have more advantages (in the business world.

    Try#2 (if about writing skills)
    Additionally, one will have more advantages (in life when they are fluent in their native language as they can express their ideas more precisely, coherently and with correct grammar, spelling and punctuation.

    Try#3 (if about speaking skills)
    Additionally, one will have more advantages (in society when they are fluent in their native language as they can express their ideas more precisely and articulately, while using correct pronunciation and grammar.

    The "in life" part you can delete. It just seemed to need a "purpose" for your statement. So, "in life", "in the business world", “in society”… something.
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    Почтенный гражданин bitpicker's Avatar
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    Especially when the improvement of writing skills is intended, the grammatical incongruence of one <-> their should be avoided.

    Robin
    Спасибо за исправления!

    Вам нравится этот форум, и вы изучаете немецкий язык? Вот похожий форум о немецком языке.

  5. #5
    Administrator MasterAdmin's Avatar
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by bitpicker
    Especially when the improvement of writing skills is intended, the grammatical incongruence of one <-> their should be avoided.

    Robin
    Yes, I think that was the major mistake here. Incongruence of one/they/he/she.


    Thank you all. It's about learning a language for this article.

    I have changed it to a version shown below. Does it look all right?

    In adddition, you will have more advantages in learning Russian if you are already fluent in your native language and can express your ideas precisely and articulately, while using correct pronunciation and grammar.
    ~ Мастерадминов Мастерадмин Мастерадминович ~

  6. #6
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterAdmin
    Quote Originally Posted by bitpicker
    Especially when the improvement of writing skills is intended, the grammatical incongruence of one <-> their should be avoided.

    Robin
    Yes, I think that was the major mistake here. Incongruence of one/they/he/she.


    Thank you all. It's about learning a language for this article.

    I have changed it to a version shown below. Does it look all right?

    In adddition, you will have more advantages in learning Russian if you are already fluent in your native language and can express your ideas precisely and articulately, while using correct pronunciation and grammar.
    Minor spelling error in your second word. I would also remove the word "while".

    I hate to do this, but:

    how could one not be fluent in one's native language? I think the issue, more accurately, is knowledge of grammar. Fluency just means being able to speak without hesitation. In ESL teaching we separate "fluency" exercises from "accuracy" exercises to ensure students work on both. Another idea that comes up occasionally is literacy. Some English learners did not learn how to read in their native language, and this presents a problem when trying to teach them.

    I might write your sentence this way: In addition, you will have more advantages in learning Russian if you can express your ideas precisely and articulately in your native language, using correct punctuation and grammar.

    That still leaves the issue of someone using incorrect pronunciation of their native language, but it's your article, so say what you like.

  7. #7
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    I was just reading over the whole article. Very good ideas there.

    Here's some corrections for the second page:

    1 Allot a certain time for learning Russian language (in the morning or evening) and keep to your schedule. Study every day, even if you have a little time for a lesson. Take no more than one day off a week.

    4 Make your place of studying as comfortable as possible. A pleasant background will put you in the mood for studying.

    6 Remember your objective and stick to it. Pay special attention to those types of speech that you most need (writing, spoken language, etc.)

    9 Praise yourself for your achievements.

    under Advice for Beginners:

    3 Begin to read adopted literature as soon as possible. Write out new words and phrases, but only those which you plan to use in the future.

  8. #8
    Administrator MasterAdmin's Avatar
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by bitpicker
    how could one not be fluent in one's native language?
    I might write your sentence this way: In addition, you will have more advantages in learning Russian if you can express your ideas precisely and articulately in your native language, using correct punctuation and grammar.
    That's a very good version. Thanks. The idea was that studying a foreign language will be easier if you are literate ("fluent") in your native language. Because some people, you know... like.. kinda speak their native language fluently, know what I'm saying?

    @paulb: Thank you for corrections!
    ~ Мастерадминов Мастерадмин Мастерадминович ~

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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    MasterAdmin,

    Your article looks very nice ... even if I happen to disagree 1,000% with it .

    I do believe you have a word missing with this sentance:
    Quote Originally Posted by Let's Learn Russian
    For the next few weeks, I will be giving recommendations on quick, independent and effective learning of Russian.
    Maybe it should be something like:
    For the next few weeks, I will be giving recommendations on quick, independent and effective methods for learning [s:3d3gke8p]of[/s:3d3gke8p] Russian.

    or techniques?

    Quote Originally Posted by Let's Learn Russian
    First of all, I want to underline two inner factors of success: language abilities and desire to master a language.
    I do remember this rule very well (as it is one of my mom's pet peeves)... when you have a "First of all," you then need a "Secondly or Second," and a "Finally or In conclusion," somewhere else in your article.

    I know when we speak English, this rule is not broken so much; however, when we write, it is broken all the time. So, I suggest you should either remove the "First of all" or find someplace to add in the secondly and in finally.



    ---------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by paulb
    I hate to do this, but: how could one not be fluent in one's native language? I think the issue, more accurately, is knowledge of grammar. Fluency just means being able to speak without hesitation. In ESL teaching we separate "fluency" exercises from "accuracy" exercises to ensure students work on both. Another idea that comes up occasionally is literacy. Some English learners did not learn how to read in their native language, and this presents a problem when trying to teach them.
    Paulb, Fluency with language encompasses much more than speaking skills. So, on this one... I side with MasterAdmin

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia -Fluency
    Language fluency is used informally to denote broadly a high level of language proficiency, most typically foreign language or another learned language, and more narrowly to denote fluid language use, as opposed to slow, halting use. In this narrow sense, fluency is necessary but not sufficient for language proficiency: fluent language users (particularly uneducated native speakers) may have narrow vocabularies, limited discourse strategies, and inaccurate word use, and may be illiterate. Native language speakers are often incorrectly referred to as fluent.

    In the sense of proficiency, "fluency" encompasses a number of related but separable skills:

    Reading: the ability to easily read and understand texts written in the language;
    Writing: the ability to formulate written texts in the language;
    Comprehension: the ability to follow and understand speech in the language;
    Speaking: the ability to speak in the language and be understood by its speakers.

    To some extent, these skills can be separately acquired. Generally, the later in life a learner approaches the study of a foreign language, the harder it is to acquire auditory comprehension and fluent speaking skills – however, the Critical Period Hypothesis is hotly debated. Reading and writing a foreign language are skills that can be acquired more easily after the primary language acquisition period of youth is over, however.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    I think it's just one of those things that depends on how you are looking at it. In a general sense people who do not have some sort of language impediment find using (native) language to come easily. Writing may constitute an exception to that as it takes quite a bit of formal training to become a skilled writer.

    So, within the context of talking about (or to) language learners, particularly beginners, I think it is reasonable to equate "fluency" with "native ability". I would like to be able to speak Russian as fluently as a native speaker, even one with a low level of education. I would also like to be able to speak (and read and write and listen) as clearly and precisely as a very educated Russian. But that is a different matter.

    I will always remember one of my English students in Ukraine. He LOVED reading English language literature, but apparently had no experience conversing with native English speakers. I could always count on him to come up with translations for particular words, but his sentence structure and his pronunciation were so bad that it was extremely difficult to listen to him. Despite his knowledge of the language, he hadn't developed any fluency.

  11. #11
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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    BTW MasterAdmin,

    for some reason you quoted my revision but attributed it to bitpicker. No big deal.

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    Re: Help me to rewrite a sentence

    The original sentence needs only one slight adjustment to be correct:

    In addition, one who knows his native language perfectly and can express his ideas precisely and grammatically correctly will have more advantages.

    I would choose "thoroughly" or "fully" over "perfectly".

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