Thread: How did the "k" get into Popkov?

How did the "k" get into Popkov? Why didn't it just stay Popov?

So would Smirnkov sound weird like Popkov?

Originally Posted by thelaxu

How did the "k" get into Popkov?

Поп (priest) -> Попов
Попок (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков

Originally Posted by thelaxu

Why didn't it just stay Popov?

These are two very different surnames.

Originally Posted by the.mike

Попка (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков

Вообще-то, скорее "попок".

Originally Posted by wanja

Originally Posted by the.mike

Попка (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков

Вообще-то, скорее "попок".

Наверное спасибо!

Originally Posted by wanja

Originally Posted by the.mike

Попка (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков

Вообще-то, скорее "попок".

Или Попко. )

Originally Posted by thelaxu

So would Smirnkov sound weird like Popkov?

Why do you think Popkov sounds weird? It doesn't.

Originally Posted by the.mike

Попка

Если бы фамилия происходила от слова "попка", то ударение было бы другое - Пóпков. А скорее всего вообще было бы Пóпкин.

Originally Posted by the.mike

Originally Posted by thelaxu

How did the "k" get into Popkov?

Поп (priest) -> Попов
Попок (diminutive-caressing of поп/priest) -> Попков

Originally Posted by thelaxu

Why didn't it just stay Popov?

These are two very different surnames.

Does the same rule now apply to the surnames listed below? I'm just wondering if adding a "к" in the name makes it a corruption (a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct.) Lots of surnames used by Americans are corruptions, I would consider the surname Eisenhower to be a corruption, it should be Eisenhauer.

Смирнков
Иванков
Кузнецков
Попков
Соколков
Лебедкев
Козлков
Новикков
Морозков
Петрков
Волкков
Соловькёв
Василькев
Зайцкев
Павлков
Семёнков
Голубкев
Виноградков
Богданков
Воробькёв

Originally Posted by thelaxu

Does the same rule now apply to the surnames listed below?

No.

There is no any particular "rule" here. It's just that there is the word поп and there is the word попок. But it doesn't mean that words like смирнок, козлок, новикок, and others exist. They don't. Most of 'surnames' in your list don't exist and many of them are even impossible or very hard to pronounce.

Ok, so most of those "surnames" don't exist.

How about the former Russian mafia member Вячеслав Иваньков?

How did Иванов become Иваньков? Does Иваньков sound weird?

Originally Posted by thelaxu

Ok, so most of those "surnames" don't exist.

How about the former Russian mafia member Вячеслав Иваньков?

How did Иванов become Иваньков? Does Иваньков sound weird?

He has never been Иванов in fact. Иваньков sounds more or less like Jenkins or Dobkins in English.

Look, in fact there are some rules or at least some basis for linguistic theorycrafting. But it is difficult to craft such theories without deep knowledge of Russian linguistics. At least I feel that my knowledge is not enough.

Originally Posted by thelaxu

I'm just wondering if adding a "к" in the name makes it a corruption (a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct.)

It's not a corruption. They are DIFFERENT SURNAMES!!! Really.
I checked, and some sources say that Popkov derives from Popko - an obscure FIRST name (or should I say a nickname), that derived from 'pop'. So Popov (presumably) is a priest's son, Popkov is a son of someone, named after a priest. If Popov is made after 'popok' (diminutive from 'pop') after all, they are still different surnames. 'Popok' is more derogatory, so if the priest was not respected they could call him 'popok', and his children would have been Попковы.
If you change Popkov to Popov, it will be a different name, because this is not a spelling 'mistake' or corruption, "k" is there for a reason.
Does it answer your question?

Anyway, why is this obsession with Popkov?

PS. And yes, some of the surnames in your list do not exist or sound unnatural, because they break a common pattern.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Originally Posted by thelaxu

Ok, so most of those "surnames" don't exist.

How about the former Russian mafia member Вячеслав Иваньков?

How did Иванов become Иваньков? Does Иваньков sound weird?

He has never been Иванов in fact. Иваньков sounds more or less like Jenkins or Dobkins in English.

Look, in fact there are some rules or at least some basis for linguistic theorycrafting. But it is difficult to craft such theories without deep knowledge of Russian linguistics. At least I feel that my knowledge is not enough.

Well, Jenkins and Dobkins sounds perfectly normal in English, not weird or funny at all, so I guess Иваньков sounds perfectly normal in Russian, not weird or funny?

An addendum to my previous post.

You should realise, that letters in Russian surnames do not appear out of the blue, you can't put them in randomly and create a different surname. Often (but not always) 'K' is a trace of the diminutive suffixes (-ик, -чик, -ок, etc). That means that such a surname derives not from the full form of the word, but from its diminutive.

So..

Смирнков - hypothetically possible, but google failed to find anyone with this surname
Иванков - possible (from Иванко (first name))
Кузнецков - sounds really bad, but possible, if derives from Кузнецк (a geographical name). Or it should be Кузнечиков (from Кузнечик)
Попков - possible
Соколков - possible (from соколок)
Лебедкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be either Лебедков or Лебёдкин (or anything else)
Козлков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Козликов (from козлик)
Новикков - IMPOSSIBLE and looks like a typo, Новиков can't be changed
Морозков - possible (from морозко)
Петрков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Петриков
Волкков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Волчков (from волчок)
Соловькёв - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Соловков or Соловкин or Соловушкин (from соловушка), etc.
Василькев - probably possible (with stress on 'и'), but sounds weird. Васильков is much more natural and common
Зайцкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Зайчиков, Зайкин or Зайков
Павлков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Павликов
Семёнков - possible, but Семенков ('е' instead of 'ё' and different stress) seems more common
Голубкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Голубков
Виноградков - possible
Богданков - possible
Воробькёв - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Воробкин, Воробков or even Воробушкин

Now I understand. Thank you.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Смирнков - hypothetically possible

Василькев - probably possible (with stress on 'и')

I disagree here. Both look completely impossible to me.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

An addendum to my previous post.

You should realise, that letters in Russian surnames do not appear out of the blue, you can't put them in randomly and create a different surname. Often (but not always) 'K' is a trace of the diminutive suffixes (-ик, -чик, -ок, etc). That means that such a surname derives not from the full form of the word, but from its diminutive.

So..

Смирнков - hypothetically possible, but google failed to find anyone with this surname
Иванков - possible (from Иванко (first name))
Кузнецков - sounds really bad, but possible, if derives from Кузнецк (a geographical name). Or it should be Кузнечиков (from Кузнечик)
Попков - possible
Соколков - possible (from соколок)
Лебедкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be either Лебедков or Лебёдкин (or anything else)
Козлков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Козликов (from козлик)
Новикков - IMPOSSIBLE and looks like a typo, Новиков can't be changed
Морозков - possible (from морозко)
Петрков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Петриков
Волкков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Волчков (from волчок)
Соловькёв - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Соловков or Соловкин or Соловушкин (from соловушка), etc.
Василькев - probably possible (with stress on 'и'), but sounds weird. Васильков is much more natural and common
Зайцкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Зайчиков, Зайкин or Зайков
Павлков - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Павликов
Семёнков - possible, but Семенков ('е' instead of 'ё' and different stress) seems more common
Голубкев - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Голубков
Виноградков - possible
Богданков - possible
Воробькёв - IMPOSSIBLE, should be Воробкин, Воробков or even Воробушкин

Wow! There is my surname here

Now I understand. Thank you.

You are welcome.

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Смирнков - hypothetically possible
Василькев - probably possible (with stress on 'и')

I disagree here. Both look completely impossible to me.

Well, I said 'probably' and 'hypothetically', because weird things do happen. You never know... But I agree, that they sound a bit forced.

There are a lot of ways to construct surname in Russia. It may be not only from name of men, but also from the name of a villarge or a town, where this men anytime had lived, for exsample. Or fought there anytime. Иваньков or Попков could born from "Иваньково" and "Попково" оr "Попки".
Морозков could form from Морозко - ancient russian name. I can tell more about history of forming russian surnames, but my english is so foul...
I`m sorry.
PS: "Виноградков" - impossible, because there wasn`t firstname or sobriquet, or geographical name. May be "Виноградинов", if any women`s sobriquet in this kin was "виноградина" (undersized and plump ). But unlikely because of its length: sobriquet must be shorter. More it may be "Виноградырев" - from profession. Or "Виноградников" if somebody of kin had a big vineyard, or his mother gave birth to him under the bush of vine. And so on

Originally Posted by enge

PS: "Виноградков" - impossible, because there wasn`t firstname or sobriquet, or geographical name.

Some villagers say "виноградка" instead of "виноградинка" (a grape). I think it's within the realm of possibility, that Виноградков can stem from this. Moreover, Виноградкин does exist (same roots), so why not Виноградков?

I'm not trying to prove that this is a common name or anything (it will be rare for sure), but it's linguistically and historically possible.