Thread: Speaking to children

My daughter's first language was russian, but moved from Ukraine at age 2. My wife speaks fluent russian and english. English is my native language, and I speak russian as a beginner would.

Over the past 2-3 years, my daughter has learned english and refuses to speak russian. The period of 'code page' switching was short...and as many have observed, children have a preference to speak only one language.

This has been the experience of our russian friends too. In their homes, only russian is spoken by the adults, but the children, while retaining and understanding of russian, speak english in return.

on the plus side, I have worked on my accent considerably...worked on my daughters understanding that an english speaker could use some russian too (she really objected to me learning russian at first. My daughter has a keen sense of 'proper'...she thoroughly objects to me parking on the left side of the driveway, as an example...and did not appreciate my attempts to speak russian either)....but at long last, I too can speak to my daughter in russian at times, and she speaks back to me in english, same as she does for mama.

and my approach has been to realize she has lost her ability to speak russian natively, and have switched to teaching her russian as a 2nd language instead...this has provided for us an activity that we share, and she is really good at naming things in russian, when directly questioned.

She is even slowing coming back to say a word or two in russian, although in a nonsensical way, just randomly picking a noun to speak at an odd time...not a sentence or a complete thought.

anyway, thats our experience, her russian understanding is still astounding, and I often wonder why she can't just speak what she knows....but she doesn't and I guess, perhaps that is a harder skill for a child than for an adult.

is she adopted? i don't understand.

Originally Posted by Robert Dupuy

My daughter's first language was russian, ...
In their homes, only russian is spoken by the adults, but the children, while retaining and understanding of russian, speak english in return.
...
...anyway, thats our experience, her russian understanding is still astounding, and I often wonder why she can't just speak what she knows....but she doesn't and I guess, perhaps that is a harder skill for a child than for an adult.

My son spoke Russian till 2.5. TV was always on, but it did not affect him. Only when he went to daycare and realized that children speak English he moved to English. I think I understand how children feel: they have to fit in. It is still the same with my son: he does what other kids his age do, period. I was lucky enough always place him between good kids, so he does not have a bad crowd to fit in.
(If somebody wants to correct my poor English, it would be appreciated. )

Originally Posted by Lampada

My son spoke Russian till 2.5. TV was always on, but it did not affect him. Only when he went to daycare and realized that children speak English he moved to English. I think I understand how children feel: they have to fit in. It is still the same with my son: he does what other kids his age do, period. I was lucky enough always place him between good kids, so he does not have a bad crowd to fit in.
(If somebody wants to correct my poor English, it would be appreciated. )

Sorry if I seem overcritical, but I don't know why you want it corrected, so I can't correct accordingly.

1st sentence) Most people use until instead of till, even though they are interchangeable, as in the case of your first sentence.

2nd sentence) The 2nd sentence should begin "The TV" instead of just "TV"

3rd sentence) "Only after he attended daycare did he realize that children spoke English, and began speaking it himself." Or "He realized that other children spoke English after attending daycare, and followed suit."

I think your last sentence should be this instead: "Luckily, he didn't fall in with a bad crowd, because I kept him away from bad kids."

By the way, I'm Garee. Nice to meet you.
I've kind of just been lurking here for the past couple of days, just waiting for something I could reply to...

Originally Posted by Garee

3rd sentence) "Only after he attended daycare did he realize that children spoke English, and began speaking it himself." Or "He realized that other children spoke English after attending daycare, and followed suit."

Oh now really, Garee - in what possible way is 'attended' better than 'went to' in this context? Much as I hate to sound like some sort of PEC-er, it does get on my nerves when people correct for the sake of correcting.

Garee, welcome here and thanks for your input. Usually I ask my son to edit my writing, but he gets mad when I mention anything about him.

Joysof, your suggestion well taken. And relax: aren't we here to learn and to have a good time?

Originally Posted by Lampada

Joysof, your suggestion well taken. And relax: aren't we here to learn and to have a good time?

You might be.

Yeah. He gets paid to be this grumpy!

Originally Posted by joysof

Originally Posted by Garee

3rd sentence) "Only after he attended daycare did he realize that children spoke English, and began speaking it himself." Or "He realized that other children spoke English after attending daycare, and followed suit."

Oh now really, Garee - in what possible way is 'attended' better than 'went to' in this context? Much as I hate to sound like some sort of PEC-er, it does get on my nerves when people correct for the sake of correcting.

I just wrote what I would have said. You could probably say the exact same thing 50 different ways if you wanted to(My son went to daycare, then, like a thunder clap after a flash of lightening, he began speaking English like all the other kids. He only began seriously speaking English after going to daycare. After he went to daycare, my son began speaking English like the other children. English probably would not have come out of my son's mouth if he had not attended daycare and seen the other kids speaking it. My son spoke English after seeing other kids speak it at daycare -- Monkey see, Monkey do...)

There is nothing wrong with using went to, but I wouldn't have, and it sounds less refined. A child would say, "I go to school." While an adult would say, "I attend college." It's really no big deal though.










Glad I could help you, Lampada. Feel free to bug me if your son is too busy to help. I live to serve.

Originally Posted by Garee

There is nothing wrong with using went to, but I wouldn't have, and it sounds less refined. A child would say, "I go to school." While an adult would say, "I attend college." It's really no big deal though.

About as refined as beginning a sentence with the second half of an opposition clause, I suppose. Glass houses, Garee, glass houses.

I was adopted at age 4 1/2.(Maybe a little older) When I came to America I would refuse to speak Russian, and whenever anyone did I would ignore them and walk away. I used to have a Russian person that came to play and speak Russian with me, but she quite because I wasn't cooperating. And my sisters were older and they would speak Russian to me(They were around 6 and 8 1/2) but I would refuse. And my friend has a adopted brother from beloruse who refuses to speak Russian, he doesn't want to. I think he's 3. It's especially true for adopted kids that don't want to speak their native language anymore...

Originally Posted by joysof

About as refined as beginning a sentence with the second half of an opposition clause, I suppose. Glass houses, Garee, glass houses.

Hee. joysoft, you big cuddly pedant, you.

Originally Posted by joysof

About as refined as beginning a sentence with the second half of an opposition clause, I suppose. Glass houses, Garee, glass houses.

I apologize for offending you by accidentally capitalizing that "W". I've developed a habit of capitalizing letters after periods, so strong, that it can not be stopped by the laws of grammar. Please accept my apologies; I will try to keep a tighter reign on my pinky from now on.

Alternately: It was a typographical error. Sue me.

I don't want to start anything with you. Please don't insult my "house".

In case anyone didn't know, joysof was referencing the proverb: "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

Originally Posted by Garee

Glad I could help you, Lampada. Feel free to bug me if your son is too busy to help. I live to serve.

It's good to have you here, Garee.
Do you have any connection with Russian?

Originally Posted by lampada

Only when he went to daycare and realized that children speak English he moved to English

Originally Posted by In the same post lampada also

(If somebody wants to correct my poor English, it would be appreciated. )

Originally Posted by Garee first

Sorry if I seem overcritical, but I don't know why you want it corrected, so I can't correct accordingly.

Originally Posted by To suggest an alternative Garee

Only after he attended daycare did he realize that children spoke English, and began speaking it himself."

In this Garee suggested: -

(1) Changing the word when to after;
(2) Swapping went to for attended;
(3) Introducing the word did; and
(4) Changing speak for spoke.

I'm no grammarian, and accordingly very happy to be put in my place, but it seems to me that (3) and (4) are essential. (1) is perhaps logically better because the swap form 'when' to 'after' shows that the switch to the use of English language didn’t take place immediately. As for (2), 'went' is the past tense of 'to go'. In straight-forward terms 'to attend' means 'to be present at' whilst 'to go' means 'to move from one point to another'. So the use of the verb 'attend' again reinforces the point that the switch to English occurred over a period of time: that is, it did not take place immedaitely on arriving at the daycare centre.

Originally Posted by joysof

Oh now really, Garee - in what possible way is 'attended' better than 'went to' in this context? Much as I hate to sound like some sort of PEC-er, it does get on my nerves when people correct for the sake of correcting.

..................................................

Originally Posted by майк

As for (2), 'went' is the past tense of 'to go'. In straight-forward terms 'to attend' means 'to be present at' whilst 'to go' means 'to move from one point to another'.

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/featur...px?search=goes

Pay particular attention to point 4.

'Go to' and 'attend' are synonymous here, the only room for controversy surrounding whether one is more 'refined' (or, indeed, po-faced) than the other. Essentially, it's a point of style, for which reason no correction should have been made.

Originally Posted by joysof

Essentially, it's a point of style, for which reason no correction should have been made.

Is it not reasonable to take a broad interpretation of the word 'correction', as long as what is being suggested is not, by a reasonable assessment, incorrect. This way we all have an opportunity of exploring language. In fact, as I think about it, even incorrect suggestions are fine by me as long as sensible debate is generated. I often learn the most when I make mistakes - you may well assess that I must know a lot by now!

Originally Posted by joysof suggested a link and

Pay particular attention to point 4.

Same resource - http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/attend.html
Pay particular attention to point 2.

How about http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=attend
Pay particular attention to the first example listed.

Now check resources for 'go' and 'went'.....well the examples listed are many and varied. In many cases the verbs 'to go' and 'to attend' may be used in such a way that their meanings are synonymous but, thankfully, the two verbs are not 'the same'.

My point, if it is not already evident, is that Garee made a number of important corrections to a single sentence and you chose to be critical. I think that all his points were valid, relevant and not incorrect. In contrast I thought that your intervention joysof was unnecessary, unfriendly and, it might be succesfully argued, inaccurate.

Originally Posted by майк

Same resource -http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/attend.html
Pay particular attention to point 2.

How about http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=attend
Pay particular attention to the first example listed.

So far, so pointless. You're regurgitating the information I provided.

the verbs 'to go' and 'to attend' may be used in such a way that their meanings are synonymous but, thankfully, the two verbs are not 'the same'.

Agreed. Your point? And why 'thankfully'?

In contrast I thought that your intervention joysof was unnecessary, unfriendly and, it might be succesfully argued, inaccurate.

Friendliness is overrated; as for the inaccuracy if my intervention, please dispense with the 'might be' and argue successfully. I'm all ears/eyes.

Originally Posted by joysof

You're regurgitating the information I provided.

Actually, although I used your reference, I provided new information which is apparent to any willing mind.

Originally Posted by joysof

And why 'thankfully'?

’Thankfully’, otherwise it would be the case that the English language has two verbs that share an identical meaning.

Originally Posted by joysof

Friendliness is overrated

Not by me.

Originally Posted by joysof

as for the inaccuracy if my intervention, please dispense with the 'might be' and argue successfully.

I did, I was just being polite.

My point is more about friendliness than grammar, so I find myself at the end of our debate: like the curate exclaimed about other matters, parts of it were excellent!

Originally Posted by майк

Originally Posted by joysof

Friendliness is overrated

Not by me.

Originally Posted by joysof

as for the inaccuracy if my intervention, please dispense with the 'might be' and argue successfully.

I did, I was just being polite.

My point is more about friendliness than grammar, so I find myself at the end of our debate: like the curate exclaimed about other matters, parts of it were excellent!