Thread: Princeton Course mistakes.

I recently downloaded the Princeton course, and overall I'd say it's a pretty good way to learn Russian on a moderate level. However, it's clear that this course was written by an American, on top of that, one that might not have as firm of a grasp on Russian as he thinks he does. I've noticed few little mistakes here and there, but the main one that bugs me takes a bit of explaining.

He decided to invent his own way to teach pronunciation, under the logic that the 12 consonants in the Russian language really represent 24 basic sounds (soft and hard,) and the 10 vowels represent only 5 basic sounds (а, я = A.) He uses Russian consonants in conjunction with the soft sign, and Latin vowels to explain the basic pronunciation mechanics. To an extent, this is all well and good if it helps people learn pronunciation (though I disagree with the system.) A few examples would be:

вэртэ becomes в {E} р т {E}
whereas
верьте becomes вь {E} рь ть {E}

Whether you choose to use this system when using his lessons is irrelevant, but I had to explain how it works to explain the following:
Most of his system is pretty dead on.

и, ы = {I}
е, э = {E}
а, я = {A}
ю, у = {U}

but here's where my problem is: he claims that

о, ё, е = {O}

Now, o and ё, sure. But e?

His reasoning is that since сёстры is written out as

сь {O} с т р {I}, сестра becomes

сь {O} c т р {A}

which by all measures is incorrect, the proper way is:

сь {E} с т р {A}

His explanation, is that sometimes ё loses its dots in unstressed situations, but retains the sound. My theory is that he has either seen it on TV or in books or magazines, where sure enough, ё is sometimes written as e, but for a completely different reason that I don't feel like explaining right now. (Russians, feel free to chime in.)

The main point of this rant is to explain to those that decide to use the Princeton course, to overlook his e-{O} connection. E is never read as {O}, only {E}. Skip that section altogether. (Chapter 1, Lesson 6, part 6E, and the first three questions of the subsequent homework.) It is wrong and will confuse you.

Thank you for your time. And those that have no idea what I'm blabbering about, carry on, nothing to see here.

Originally Posted by pw-

I recently downloaded the Princeton course, and overall I'd say it's a pretty good way to learn Russian on a moderate level. However, it's clear that this course was written by an American, on top of that, one that might not have as firm of a grasp on Russian as he thinks he does. I've noticed few little mistakes here and there, but the main one that bugs me takes a bit of explaining.

He decided to invent his own way to teach pronunciation, under the logic that the 12 consonants in the Russian language really represent 24 basic sounds (soft and hard,) and the 10 vowels represent only 5 basic sounds (а, я = A.) He uses Russian consonants in conjunction with the soft sign, and Latin vowels to explain the basic pronunciation mechanics. To an extent, this is all well and good if it helps people learn pronunciation (though I disagree with the system.) A few examples would be:

вэртэ becomes в {E} р т {E}
whereas
верьте becomes вь {E} рь ть {E}

Whether you choose to use this system when using his lessons is irrelevant, but I had to explain how it works to explain the following:
Most of his system is pretty dead on.

и, ы = {I}
е, э = {E}
а, я = {A}
ю, у = {U}

but here's where my problem is: he claims that

о, ё, е = {O}

Now, o and ё, sure. But e?

His reasoning is that since сёстры is written out as

сь {O} с т р {I}, сестра becomes

сь {O} c т р {A}

which by all measures is incorrect, the proper way is:

сь {E} с т р {A}

His explanation, is that sometimes ё loses its dots in unstressed situations, but retains the sound. My theory is that he has either seen it on TV or in books or magazines, where sure enough, ё is sometimes written as e, but for a completely different reason that I don't feel like explaining right now. (Russians, feel free to chime in.)

The main point of this rant is to explain to those that decide to use the Princeton course, to overlook his e-{O} connection. E is never read as {O}, only {E}. Skip that section altogether. (Chapter 1, Lesson 6, part 6E, and the first three questions of the subsequent homework.) It is wrong and will confuse you.

Thank you for your time. And those that have no idea what I'm blabbering about, carry on, nothing to see here.

The author is correct. Linguists generally describe the link between Ё Е and О this way. Basically, where there is a Е in a word that can become Ё in any grammatical form of the word, this Е although pronounced /je/ is technically an /o/ in morphiological/whatever terms.

The author was not saying that сестра was pronounced with an O. He was illustrating that in the example of сёстры (the nom. plu., sisters) that the nom. singular form is сестр

[quote=TATY]

Originally Posted by pw-

I recently downloaded the Princeton course, and overall I'd say it's a pretty good way to learn Russian on a moderate level. However, it's clear that this course was written by an American, on top of that, one that might not have as firm of a grasp on Russian as he thinks he does. I've noticed few little mistakes here and there, but the main one that bugs me takes a bit of explaining.

He decided to invent his own way to teach pronunciation, under the logic that the 12 consonants in the Russian language really represent 24 basic sounds (soft and hard,) and the 10 vowels represent only 5 basic sounds (а, я = A.) He uses Russian consonants in conjunction with the soft sign, and Latin vowels to explain the basic pronunciation mechanics. To an extent, this is all well and good if it helps people learn pronunciation (though I disagree with the system.) A few examples would be:

вэртэ becomes в {E} р т {E}
whereas
верьте becomes вь {E} рь ть {E}

Whether you choose to use this system when using his lessons is irrelevant, but I had to explain how it works to explain the following:
Most of his system is pretty dead on.

и, ы = {I}
е, э = {E}
а, я = {A}
ю, у = {U}

but here's where my problem is: he claims that

о, ё, е = {O}

Now, o and ё, sure. But e?

His reasoning is that since сёстры is written out as

сь {O} с т р {I}, сестра becomes

сь {O} c т р {A}

which by all measures is incorrect, the proper way is:

сь {E} с т р {A}

His explanation, is that sometimes ё loses its dots in unstressed situations, but retains the sound. My theory is that he has either seen it on TV or in books or magazines, where sure enough, ё is sometimes written as e, but for a completely different reason that I don't feel like explaining right now. (Russians, feel free to chime in.)

The main point of this rant is to explain to those that decide to use the Princeton course, to overlook his e-{O} connection. E is never read as {O}, only {E}. Skip that section altogether. (Chapter 1, Lesson 6, part 6E, and the first three questions of the subsequent homework.) It is wrong and will confuse you.

Thank you for your time. And those that have no idea what I'm blabbering about, carry on, nothing to see here.

The author is correct. Linguists generally describe the link between Ё Е and О this way. Basically, where there is a Е in a word that can become Ё in any grammatical form of the word, this Е although pronounced /je/ is technically an /o/ in morphiological/whatever terms.

The author was not saying that сестра was pronounced with an O. He was illustrating that in the example of сёстры (the nom. plu., sisters) that the nom. singular form is сестр

[quote=pw-][quote=TATY]

Originally Posted by "pw-":1f8njc2c

I recently downloaded the Princeton course, and overall I'd say it's a pretty good way to learn Russian on a moderate level. However, it's clear that this course was written by an American, on top of that, one that might not have as firm of a grasp on Russian as he thinks he does. I've noticed few little mistakes here and there, but the main one that bugs me takes a bit of explaining.

He decided to invent his own way to teach pronunciation, under the logic that the 12 consonants in the Russian language really represent 24 basic sounds (soft and hard,) and the 10 vowels represent only 5 basic sounds (а, я = A.) He uses Russian consonants in conjunction with the soft sign, and Latin vowels to explain the basic pronunciation mechanics. To an extent, this is all well and good if it helps people learn pronunciation (though I disagree with the system.) A few examples would be:

вэртэ becomes в {E} р т {E}
whereas
верьте becomes вь {E} рь ть {E}

Whether you choose to use this system when using his lessons is irrelevant, but I had to explain how it works to explain the following:
Most of his system is pretty dead on.

и, ы = {I}
е, э = {E}
а, я = {A}
ю, у = {U}

but here's where my problem is: he claims that

о, ё, е = {O}

Now, o and ё, sure. But e?

His reasoning is that since сёстры is written out as

сь {O} с т р {I}, сестра becomes

сь {O} c т р {A}

which by all measures is incorrect, the proper way is:

сь {E} с т р {A}

His explanation, is that sometimes ё loses its dots in unstressed situations, but retains the sound. My theory is that he has either seen it on TV or in books or magazines, where sure enough, ё is sometimes written as e, but for a completely different reason that I don't feel like explaining right now. (Russians, feel free to chime in.)

The main point of this rant is to explain to those that decide to use the Princeton course, to overlook his e-{O} connection. E is never read as {O}, only {E}. Skip that section altogether. (Chapter 1, Lesson 6, part 6E, and the first three questions of the subsequent homework.) It is wrong and will confuse you.

Thank you for your time. And those that have no idea what I'm blabbering about, carry on, nothing to see here.

The author is correct. Linguists generally describe the link between Ё Е and О this way. Basically, where there is a Е in a word that can become Ё in any grammatical form of the word, this Е although pronounced /je/ is technically an /o/ in morphiological/whatever terms.

The author was not saying that сестра was pronounced with an O. He was illustrating that in the example of сёстры (the nom. plu., sisters) that the nom. singular form is сестр

He keeps on saying that Princeton's students are geniuses... this might be the answer
Anyway, I study with thoses courses myself, and I have given up understanding his notation in details, almost from the beginning. Nevertheless, I know that if I had made the effort to understand it thoroughly, I would know be able to predict many forms and endings, which I can not now, because I did not care to spend time with that.
For example, I am sloppy when it comes to guess if some feminine adjectives in the genitive case should end with ой or ей, or stuff like that.
Whereas I know his method makes it almost infallible.