Political Forum?

[Alex_krsk]

"Наконец
Я слышу речь не мальчика, но мужа."

Из трагедии «Борис Годунов» (1825) А. С. Пушкина . Слова Марины Мнишек, обращенные к Самозванцу.

"Если лёгок как дым,
То таким и не надо никуда"

Л. Фёдоров "Девушки поют"

[Lampada]

"Если лёгок как дым,
То таким и не надо никуда"

Л. Фёдоров "Девушки поют"

[Hanna]

@Alex, I think we know that this was not a mechanical crash. You may not want to discuss it, and nobody was making you. However there were people who did want to comment and were interested in what others thought.

@Lampada, Masteradmin; take a glance at the political forum. Something is wrong, when 3/4 of all threads are locked. If the forum can't stomach discussion of Politics anymore for whatever reason, or if it doesn't support the core mission of site, then just remove that section and be done with it. Censorship never happened before, for as long as I've been a member, and it only started as things progressively deteriorated in Ukraine. Right now it looks like censorship, a bit of a farce when there are more closed threads than open threads. It's just not a good reflection on the open climate that you probably want to promote.

I thought I could help to keep that forum reasonably dynamic, interesting, informative and troll free as a Mod, along the lines that it was functioning for many years. But I don't see that I could do anything if the regime is this strict, so if another Mod is needed, I'm not the "right" person for the job, and I probably wasn't a good choice to begin with.

[Alex_krsk]

@Alex, I think we know that this was not a mechanical crash. You may not want to discuss it, and nobody was making you. However there were people who did want to comment and were interested in what others thought.

At least i tried.

[Hanna]

At least i tried.

Sorry I misunderstood your post My mistake!

Ханна, я понимаю тебя, но сейчас не те времена, что были раньше. Чью или какую политику ты хочешь обсуждать? Идёт кровопролитная война, воюющие гибнут каждый день, с обеих сторон плюс гибнет гражданское население.
Если хочешь выразить соболезнование семьям погибших и раненых, пожалуйста, открой тему.

I disagree with you on this, I think it's a highly relevant topic in a forum titled:

" Politics Discuss everything about the politics of Russia and other countries of the former USSR."

However, I respect your authority as a moderator, I've known you for a long time and always liked you, and I realise that this might be a topic where it's impossible for you to stay neutral. So I am not going to quarrel with you about it.

I think I've said everything I have to say about this topic now.

[Alex_krsk]

Sorry I misunderstood your post My mistake!

Å, det är en världslig sak




It must be my awful english anyways.

[Lampada]

Ханна, я понимаю тебя, но сейчас не те времена, что были раньше. Чью или какую политику ты хочешь обсуждать? Идёт кровопролитная война, воюющие гибнут каждый день, с обеих сторон, плюс гибнет гражданское население.
Если хочешь выразить соболезнование семьям погибших и раненых, пожалуйста, открой тему.

[RedFox]

Эта тема явно создаёт хорошую почву для выражения всякой ненависти, и поэтому не создаёт условий для дружелюбной обстановки на форуме. Вынуждена закрыть её.

На мой взгляд, «почву для выражения всякой ненависти», здесь создаёт модератор, обладающий тоталитарным мышлением в степени, которой позавидовал бы и Сталин.

Прошу забанить мой аккаунт бессрочно.

[Lampada]

На мой взгляд, «почву для выражения всякой ненависти», здесь создаёт модератор, обладающий тоталитарным мышлением в степени, которой позавидовал бы и Сталин.

Прошу забанить мой аккаунт бессрочно.

Жаль.

[Alex_krsk]

Не удаляйте красного лиса. Вдруг ещё передумает.

[Lampada]

Не удаляйте красного лиса. Вдруг ещё передумает.

Никто его не собирается удалять.

[iCake]

Судя по тому, что его активность резко упала в последние дни, то он уже самоудалился

[Hanna]

I consider Eric C. and 14Russian are to be trolls that should have been banned a long time ago since their only purpose on this forum is to bad mouth Russia, whinge about the USSR and generally spread unpleasant atmosphere and contempt for Russia at this forum. Do such people belong in a forum about Russia and the Russian language? I have never once seen a positive comment about Russia from either these two.

It is one thing to take the view they take in a general history forum or political forum, where everybody's worldview is equally valid. But this is a forum about Russia.
So what the hell is the point of hanging here every day and telling anyone who visits the site, what a useless and evil country Russia is, and was.

It smells to me of a fixation / mental illness, paid or unpaid activism and sabotage. How can this be tolerated?

Their behaviour is akin to spending years on a cooking forum and telling everybody how useless, boring and meaningless cooking is, or in a Christian forum, telling everybody that God is dead and Jesus is fake.
If a person's intention is to simply complain and badmouth the focus of the forum, then such a person eventually gets banned.

They certainly managed to put off almost all native Russian speakers from the political forum. I am still not interested in participating in that forum regularly because they singlehandedly lower the quality of the forum.

The ban on the Ukraine topics was the last straw for me. It's almost impossible to discuss anything political relating to Russia's foreign policy without mentioning Ukraine, so I see no point in particiating like I did before.

i think this ban should be revised and individual users who can't debate politely with restraint be banned instead. Some Russians went over the top when debating Ukraine, but is that really serious enough that nobody else can dicuss the topic?

And another thing: User Ninamasji is the same as previously banned user Krupskaya and another older user I don't remember the name of.

[Serge_spb]

I consider Eric C. and 14Russian are to be trolls that should have been banned a long time ago since their only purpose on this forum is to bad mouth Russia, whinge about the USSR and generally spread unpleasant atmosphere and contempt for Russia at this forum. Do such people belong in a forum about Russia and the Russian language? I have never once seen a positive comment about Russia from either these two.

It is one thing to take the view they take in a general history forum or political forum, where everybody's worldview is equally valid. But this is a forum about Russia.
So what the hell is the point of hanging here every day and telling anyone who visits the site, what a useless and evil country Russia is, and was.

It smells to me of a fixation / mental illness, paid or unpaid activism and sabotage. How can this be tolerated?

Their behaviour is akin to spending years on a cooking forum and telling everybody how useless, boring and meaningless cooking is, or in a Christian forum, telling everybody that God is dead and Jesus is fake.
If a person's intention is to simply complain and badmouth the focus of the forum, then such a person eventually gets banned.

They certainly managed to put off almost all native Russian speakers from the political forum. I am still not interested in participating in that forum regularly because they singlehandedly lower the quality of the forum.

The ban on the Ukraine topics was the last straw for me. It's almost impossible to discuss anything political relating to Russia's foreign policy without mentioning Ukraine, so I see no point in particiating like I did before.

i think this ban should be revised and individual users who can't debate politely with restraint be banned instead. Some Russians went over the top when debating Ukraine, but is that really serious enough that nobody else can dicuss the topic?

And another thing: User Ninamasji is the same as previously banned user Krupskaya and another older user I don't remember the name of.

Too much text to read.
But if these two recieve a Lampadas banhammer - put me behind bars as well

"But this is a forum about Russia" - I thought that forum is about russian language.
No one is obliged to speak in patriotic manner.

Many europeans \ americans here have many illusions about Russia.
I`m feeling a duty to disprove them.

[Hanna]

Too much text to read.
But if these two recieve a Lampadas banhammer - put me behind bars as well

"But this is a forum about Russia" - I thought that forum is about russian language.
No one is obliged to speak in patriotic manner.

Many europeans \ americans here have many illusions about Russia.
I`m feeling a duty to disprove them.

At least you live in Russia. More than Eric or 14Russian who sometimes display amazing ignorance while spitting out their daily installment of anti-Russia propaganda.

But I must say that I wonder about the motives, of somebody like you, who feels the need to frequent an international forum, and convince others that his country is bad. Is your life in Russia so bad? Have you got a better solution?

Nobody thinks Russia is an ideal society. Clearly corruption, criminality and bureaucracy is a problem. My point is that it isn't an aggressive country that Europe needs to fear.

And I also wonder what your ideal is. Is it the EU that you admire? Or the USA is your ideal society? China maybe?

People take an interest in your country and language and you try to discourage them. It seems like very strange behaviour to me. There is a time and place to be critical to ones country, primarily among ones own countrymen.

I think it's a mistake on the part of the forum to allow people like Serge, Eric and 14Russian to dominate the political forum. Maybe it's a deliberate choice as a result of the events in Ukraine.

One or two people who are critical is good, but right now, all the Russians who love their country stopped posting in the political forum.

If I want to read anti-Russia talk, I don't need to go to a forum, I can turn on the TV or open a newspaper here in England. I come to the forum for the alternative view.

[Serge_spb]

At least you live in Russia. More than Eric or 14Russian who sometimes display amazing ignorance while spitting out their daily installment of anti-Russia propaganda.

But I must say that I wonder about the motives, of somebody like you, who feels the need to frequent an international forum, and convince others that his country is bad. Is your life in Russia so bad? Have you got a better solution?

Nobody thinks Russia is an ideal society. Clearly corruption, criminality and bureaucracy is a problem. My point is that it isn't an aggressive country that Europe needs to fear.

And I also wonder what your ideal is. Is it the EU that you admire? Or the USA is your ideal society? China maybe?

People take an interest in your country and language and you try to discourage them. It seems like very strange behaviour to me. There is a time and place to be critical to ones country, primarily among ones own countrymen.

I think it's a mistake on the part of the forum to allow people like Serge, Eric and 14Russian to dominate the political forum. Maybe it's a deliberate choice as a result of the events in Ukraine.

One or two people who are critical is good, but right now, all the Russians who love their country stopped posting in the political forum.

If I want to read anti-Russia talk, I don't need to go to a forum, I can turn on the TV or open a newspaper here in England. I come to the forum for the alternative view.

You`re completely missing the point.

I`ve never discouraged anyone from learning russian. It is widely spoken in New York, eastern Europe, post Soviet-Union countries. Only half of those 300 millions who are proficient in russians live in Russia.

Another advantage for learning russian is that finally when the political regime changes (in 10-15 years?..) - our country wil be eager for foreign investments. And profits here wil still be much higher than anywhere else. While you can make maximum of 15-25 % in western business - a year income of 50 (or even 100 and more) % is still possible in Russia. Less competition here, since the entrepreneurship culture came here recently.

At the same time, I feel disappointed how many foreigners got really naive about the current situation. You grew up in comfortable EU state. You become bored, see no changes in the way your nation lives. You begin watching Russia Today channel constantly looking for a better world, with kind and brave people, who still have imperial ambitions even in 21st century. Those who occupy the largest teritory in the world, produce rockets, nuclear submarines and presume to bark at other powerful countries with no consequences. What an illusion that is...

You have never seen the reality of our, russian world. With poverty, meanness, unreasonable cruelty, sufferings. Which much rarely happen anywhere else. Which are not the cause of USA`s politics or anyones else, but just our habit of living.

Our famous rock band "Aria" sang in 1995:

В этой пьяной стране есть для каждого кнут
Здесь поют о душе и в нее же плюют
Как назло, как назло, как назло
Я понял слишком поздно...

(song itself Паранойя — Ария. Слушать онлайн на Яндекс.Музыке)

Moreover, we are agressive. Occupied two countries in the last six years. And already spread our influence in Latvia as well.

We are good at making shows. We are good at even decepting ourselves.
And I don`t want anyone from abroad to got into trap of falling in love with some populated symbols of our nation.
You invest in russian economy - you may loose all you money. Because it`s unpredictable.
Russian rulers are far from being the brightest people in the country. Ordinary Russians themselves - no comments.
They have already agreed to earn less and pay more. No protests in Moscow these days as you can see.

If you come here to live - you may get stabbed for the colour of your skin or sometimes just for having an accent.

I want all the people from the west to be proud of their nations. You are the example for the rest of the world and always have been.
Most notably: our most beautiful city - St Petersburg was designed by your, european, architects. Anything else in russian culture, in paintings, music, literature is a heritage of your culture. We don`t have our own culture ourselves, that`s a great myth.

Your problems such as Guantanamo scandal are nothing comparing to our lies.

And concerning the "alternative view" - that`s a complete nonsense. There is always only one existing truth. Many just get used to disguise their lies with words like "different opinion", "another point of view" etc. etc. Especially propaganda channels like Russia Today.

[Hanna]

Learn Russian to use in New York, what a ridiculous idea. And for the record it's not particularly useful in Eastern Europe contrary to what you seem to think.

Maybe you are actually another Russian living in the USA, there used to be several of those using this forum.
Obviously their view is rather biased and as somebody pointed out, they feel a strong need to justify to themselves, that leaving Russia was the right choice.

As for the West being an example to the world - tell that to the Libyans, Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, Vietnamese, South Americans and East Ukrainians who more or less had their lives ruined through the intervention of the West. Just to mention some examples, there are more.

And your claim that there is "only one existing truth" is nonsense in a political context. There are several people here who live in Russia who disagree with you. So it's ludicrous that you would make out that there is only one truth, namely your interpretation.

Then you accuse me of being ignorant and in a comfortable EU country.
You are obviously not aware that the living standard in many EU countries has reduced dramatically after embracing US style neo-liberal economic policies. Yes it may be slightly more comfortable in some EU countries than Russia, at the moment. Excluding Greece Romania and others. But our living standards have reduced over the last decade. In Russia they are improving.

You obviously have roof over your head, food in your stomach, received a good education that taught you English, have a computer and a broadband connection and time to partcipate in this forum. Life can be a lot worse than that so you are not quite the suffering victim you seem to think that you are.

I am bored with this discussion. The kind of views you express are available in all Western press, there is no need to come here to hear it.

"Poor oppressed Russians living in Putin's dictatorship, with censorship and no freedom for gay people.... Full of corruption, miscarriages of justice and police brutality".

"Yet they keep voting for Putin because he brainwashed them - poor bastards can't even think for themselves, totally at the mercy of evil Putin. Plus, Putin cheats in elections anyway".

Yes I heard all that, and I largely don't believe it.

[Serge_spb]

There are several people here who live in Russia who disagree

They are stupid. Or liers.

Clear enough?

You obviously have roof over your head, food in your stomach, received a good education that taught you English, have a computer and a broadband connection and time to partcipate in this forum. Life can be a lot worse than that so you are not quite the suffering victim you seem to think that you are.

And so? Am I supposed to be an animal? Bydlo (the cattle) like it is being called? Got food \ roof - that`s it?

You are obviously not aware that the living standard in many EU countries has reduced dramatically after embracing US style neoliberal economic policies.

Not relevant argument.
Compare russian salaries with europeans.
Don`t forget that I actually lived in the EU till 2013. And still have got acquanitences there.

I`m not even talking about how rouble dramaticall fell now. Just compare 2013 salaries. Or 2012. Using numbeo.com, for instance.

[hddscan]

They are stupid. Or liers.

Clear enough?

есть два мнения: мое и неправильное

[Serge_spb]

есть два мнения: мое и неправильное

Ерничать здесь не надо.

Равно как и церемониться с дураками, позволяя вести разговор на равных.