Thread: Говорю по-русски

kgcole - мы так вообще не говорим, я думаю.
Надо как-то перефразировать, а как именно - в голову не приходит.

на несвязанной ноте, я хотела хвалить твоё мужество. Когда я только начинала писать, я звучала то же, или даже хуже, но я не боялась как тебе
. Cо временем, все стало лучше (и я все еще улучшаю каждый день!).

Так держать!

Eugene-p, да, есть такое. Мне вспоминается притча о сороконожке и муравье, когда муравей спросил сороконожку, как ей удаётся управлять одновременно стольким количеством ног. Сороконожка задумалась об этом и запуталась в своих ногах.
А вообще, я считаю, что в русском согласование времён не так критично, как в английском. Я не лингвист, прошу не судить меня строго. Я из Молдовы, с Россией нас разделяет Украина, плюс сказывается влияние Одессы. Советские учителя коммунистической закалки учили нас по схеме "шаг вправо, шаг влево - расстрел", поэтому к грамматике русского языка я отношусь достаточно трепетно. Могу пренамеренно не поставить запятую (дабы не перегружать текст запятыми), почитываю блог Артемия Лебедева (Производство ветровых стёкол для снегоходов : БУ), приобщён к субкультурью на Удаффкоме (http://udaff.com/), к систематизации субкультурья на Луркморе (Небыдло — Lurkmore).

PS. сылки все рабочие, это не спам, просто они так выглядят. Лебедев - российский дизайнер, путешественник, блогер.

I think it’s important to have a balance between strict use of grammar, and the freedom to express oneself while in the process of learning. I respect your adherence to grammar, Eugene, while at the same time understanding Aurelian’s mode of communication. They both have value, in my opinion.

Я думаю, что это важно иметь в виде равновесие между строгого использования и независимости выразить собственные идеи пока в течении учения. Я уважаю Евгения для соблюдения грамматике пока в то же время понимая общение Аурелианы (of Aurelian). По-моему, мне их вместе имеют цен.

(I hope I’m improving in writing. I’m trying not to translate word for word, but often I’m not thinking of a Russian equivalent phrase to replace words. Also, I couldn’t find a perfective form of “иметь”….it seems that was needed)

Originally Posted by Aurelian

А ещё я без зазрения совести говорю "позвОнит" вместо "позвонИт".

Ah, a Russian ignorant person detected. Rednecks on the way, hang in there.

Originally Posted by kgcole

Я думаю, что это важно иметь в виде равновесие между строгого использования и независимости выразить собственные идеи пока в течении учения. Я уважаю Евгения для соблюдения грамматике пока в то же время понимая общение Аурелианы (of Aurelian). По-моему, мне их вместе имеют цен.

Я считаю важным в процессе учёбы соблюдать равновесие (баланс тоже правильно) между строгим соблюдением грамматики и свободой выражения. Я уважаю вашу приверженность грамматике, Евгений, но в то же время я понимаю и манеру общения Аурелиана. Оба этих подхода имеют важность для меня (представляют ценность для меня).

Originally Posted by Paul G.

Ah, a Russian ignorant person detected. Rednecks on the way, hang in there.

Мне такое в упрёк мог поставить только русскоязычный граммар-наци.
А как вы относитесь к одесскому говору? Ликвидация - лучшие сцены, шутки - коллекция - YouTube

PS. Определение граммар-наци на лурке http://lurkmore.to/%D0%93%D1%80%D0%B...B0%D1%86%D0%B8

kgcole, another one advice, if you allow. What a dictionary do you use? It's very important to use a proper dictionary. Maybe you even don't understand how much. I mean a dictionary which contains a lot of context examples. So, you can choose the right one. Because as I can see, you very often select wrong words from the list. For example, "учение" instead of "обучение" and so on. When you investigate the word and its context, you learn a lot from the examples.

Originally Posted by kgcole

(I hope I’m improving in writing. I’m trying not to translate word for word, but often I’m not thinking of a Russian equivalent phrase to replace words. Also, I couldn’t find a perfective form of “иметь”….it seems that was needed)

"to have a balance" можно ведь заменить на "to respect a balace". Разве нет? Может быть даже "it's important to balance ..."?

Originally Posted by Paul G.

kgcole, another one advice, if you allow. What a dictionary do you use? It's very important to use a proper dictionary. Maybe you even don't understand how much. I mean a dictionary which contains a lot of context examples. So, you can choose the right one. Because as I can see, you very often select wrong words from the list. For example, "учение" instead of "обучение" and so on. When you investigate the word and its context, you learn a lot from the examples.

I use ABBYY Lingo dictionary for PC, Paul It's reasonably comprehensive, and does show examples on definitions. I'll pay more attention to them now and try to be more selective in my words. Sometimes the subtleties evade me But I have noticed thanks to everyone's corrections how distant from the mainstream Russian I am. Only practice will help me to make better choices in my words. I appreciate everyone's patience, you know Not to mention the time one takes to make corrections...lol

Originally Posted by Aurelian

"to have a balance" можно ведь заменить на "to respect a balace". Разве нет? Может быть даже "it's important to balance ..."?

I studied your corrections Aurelian, and I see how much easier it is to say things that way. I do notice, though, that some of the English meaning is lost. Generally subtle differences. I think part of my problem is trying to stick too closely to the English...which gives me the "word for word" habit of translating. What do you think?

Originally Posted by kgcole

I think part of my problem is trying to stick too closely to the English...which gives me the "word for word" habit of translating.

As I said earlier, you should learn some patterns which help you start thinking like Russian. It could be a good solution. Try it and I'm sure you'll see the result. You can't just translate words and put them together in the same order. It's nonsense.

For example, the problem with the verb "to have". "I have a car" sounds in Russian like "У меня есть машина". Do you see the verb "to have" here? Right, Russians don't use it a lot, it's not such an important verb in Russian as it's in English.
Also, there is no "а" (sort of "and", soft opposition) conjunction in English. There are only "и" (and) and "но" (but) in English. But the conjunction "a" adds an additional dimension to sentences, which you should figure out. Sometimes you can't say something properly if you don't use this powerful conjunction. It looks like Russians often avoid the words "either/neither", because there are no straight analogs of them in Russian. But can you imagine a good English language without these words?

And so on...

Originally Posted by Paul G.

As I said earlier, you should learn some patterns which help you start thinking like Russian. It could be a good solution. Try it and I'm sure you'll see the result. You can't just translate words and put them together in the same order. It's nonsense.

For example, the problem with the verb "to have". "I have a car" sounds in Russian like "У меня есть машина". Do you see the verb "to have" here? Right, Russians don't use it a lot, it's not such an important verb in Russian as it's in English.
Also, there is no "а" (sort of "and", soft opposition) conjunction in English. There are only "и" (and) and "но" (but) in English. But the conjunction "a" adds an additional dimension to sentences, which you should figure out. Sometimes you can't say something properly if you don't use this powerful conjunction. It looks like Russians often avoid the words "either/neither", because there are no straight analogs of them in Russian. But can you imagine a good English language without these words?

And so on...

Paul - - I’ll try to isolate some patterns in my textbook and what I read. I don’t want to sound too much like I’m just repeating things I copy down, you know. I do have a question about the genitive case, though. I’m familiar with the phrase “У меня есть”, but I have read it where “есть” is omitted and it’s written in short as simply “У меня…”; i.e. “У меня книгу”. Is this correct to do this? - - I’ll try to incorporate “а” into my sentences. I am a little confused over certain articles such as “тот”, especially when it’s declined as “тут”. I’m not sure exactly how to translate it. I have other questions I’ll ask later. I’m glad I ran into this forum. It helps a great deal!

Originally Posted by kgcole

... isolate some patterns in my textbook and what I read. ...

Adverbial phrases. "Interestingly for me and pleasantly sounding Russian adverbial phrases."
And impersonal constructions.

Originally Posted by kgcole

I think part of my problem is trying to stick too closely to the English...which gives me the "word for word" habit of translating. What do you think?

Я тоже не могу переводить слово в слово ваш английский текст, я вынужден аппроксимировать основную идею. Я не могу написать "надо иметь равновесие при использовании ...", я должен выбрать что-то из вариантов "обладать равновесием", "владеть равновесием", "соблюдать равновесие", "балансировать между ...", "руководствоваться чувством меры в использовании ..." и тд.

Originally Posted by Seraph

Adverbial phrases. "Interestingly for me and pleasantly sounding Russian adverbial phrases."
And impersonal constructions.

I'll see what I can find...although I'm not sure what you mean by impersonal constructions...

I know what you mean, Aurelian…and it helps me see the problem Russians are having with my writing; for instance, even though in my mind I think “use” in English, when I write “использование” a Russian may think of an entirely different meaning that’s close, but not the same thing. It makes it more important for me to be more particular about my word choices, and not so broad. I’m glad you’ve taken an interest in the conversation, and your thoughts help a lot.

I can see now that “при использовании...” makes no sense

Originally Posted by kgcole

I do have a question about the genitive case, though.

OK, and what is you question? I cannot see it.

Originally Posted by kgcole

I’m familiar with the phrase “У меня есть”, but I have read it where “есть” is omitted and it’s written in short as simply “У меня…”; i.e. “У меня книгу”. Is this correct to do this?

You cannot say "У меня книгу". You can say "У меня книга". Note that "книга" is grammatically a subject here! (Lit.: At me is a book).

If your question is about the difference between "У меня есть книга" and "У меня книга", just remember that "У меня есть книга" is better.
I can try to explain some rules where to use "есть" and where to omit it, but I'm afraid it can be a bit complicated for the beginner.

Basically, we always omit "есть" when something naturally belongs to you: "У меня длинные волосы" (I have long hair) - you cannot put "есть" here, since the hair belong to you naturally. Otherwise, if you say "У меня есть длинные волосы" would sound like you have some long hair separate from your body (e.g. you keep that hair in a box or something like that).

Originally Posted by kgcole

I am a little confused over certain articles such as “тот”, especially when it’s declined as “тут”.

1. "тот" is not an article. We just do not have articles. "тот" is an indicative pronoun.
2. "тут" means "here", it's almost the same as "здесь" (if you know). It has nothing to do with "тот".
3. Yes, "тот" IS declined: тот, то, того, тому, тем, (о) том, та, той, той, ту, той, (о) той, те, тех, тем, теми, (о) тех.

If you have a question about the declension, just provide an example and ask what is not clear in that example. We'll try to help.

Bob I can easily destroy your perfect theory by saying "у меня есть глаза"
(Folks, don't dare to say "у меня глаза", it sounds like a disease, like I have a headache, or I have a corn on my toe)

However, everything you said about hair is right. Maybe it's all about the adjective, like "У меня зелёные глаза", or about the possibility of rewording like "I have green eyes -> My eyes are green" while you can't say "my headache is in the head"