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Thread: How to pronounce double "и" & what is this symbol?

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    Увлечённый спикер genuinefarmgirl's Avatar
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    How to pronounce double "и" & what is this symbol?

    I have a Russian AV New Testament that I have been working in and have been wondering how to pronounce words that have two "и" 's in a row. A couple examples:
    очищении (on the end)
    Иисус (at the beginning)

    Also, can anyone tell me what this symbol is - I don't think it is a мягкий знак. It is different (there is a мягкий знак in verse 7).
    You can see it in verse 5 on the second line at the left:
    Attachment 799

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Throbert McGee likes this.

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    Почтенный гражданин pushvv's Avatar
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    It's very often when you need to pronounce 2 or three similar sounds in a row. For example змееед or длинношеее.
    You just need to say it 3 times separately.

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    Иисус is pronounced Исус. I don't know exactly what is pronounced at the end of очищении.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Иисус is pronounced Исус.
    Иисус is pronounced И-Исус not Исус. People were killed for that BTW
    Иисус или Исус: буква раскола - Православный журнал ''Фома''

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuinefarmgirl View Post
    I have a Russian AV New Testament that I have been working in and have been wondering how to pronounce words that have two "и" 's in a row. A couple examples:
    очищении (on the end)
    Иисус (at the beginning)
    You just need to take a very short pause between two of the same vowels when you speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuinefarmgirl View Post
    I have a Russian AV New Testament that I have been working in and have been wondering how to pronounce words that have two "и" 's in a row. A couple examples:
    очищении (on the end)
    Иисус (at the beginning)

    Also, can anyone tell me what this symbol is - I don't think it is a мягкий знак. It is different (there is a мягкий знак in verse 7).
    You can see it in verse 5 on the second line at the left:
    Attachment 799
    Double "и" is pronounced just as two "и" vowels: ee-ee.
    Whenever you see a combination of vowel letters in Russian, just pronounce each sound as it is. Russian is not like English. In English a combination of vowels is not the same as two separate vowels, e.g. "au" is not just "ay"+"you" but a completely new vowel, right? But Russian is much simpler in this regard. Just read each vowel as its own sound.

    Unfortunately, I cannot see your attachment just an error notification...

    However, I can guess what you mean. Is it like a high soft sign (Ь) with a strikethrough on the top of it? If yes, it is an old letter (it's name is ЯТЬ) which was in use until 1918. You can still find it in some old texts. Its pronunciation is exactly the same as the pronunciation of Е. So, the schoolchildren had to memorize in those times, where to write the plain Е, and where to write ЯТЬ. The spelling was much more complicated for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomer View Post
    Иисус is pronounced И-Исус not Исус. People were killed for that BTW
    Иисус или Исус: буква раскола - Православный журнал ''Фома''
    Вы чего? Произносится он "Исус", а вот пишется "Иисус", потому и спор возник, что произношение не зависело от написания.
    То же самое "иероглифы" - "ироглифы". Паузы внутри слов - вообще нонсенс!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Вы чего? Произносится он "Исус", а вот пишется "Иисус", потому и спор возник, что произношение не зависело от написания.
    Many people pronounce it "Исус" indeed. But there are educated people who pronounce it "Иисус" with two "и" sounds. I would say both pronunciations can exist, "Иисус" being the preferred one, and "Исус" being widely used as a common simplification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    То же самое "иероглифы" - "ироглифы". Паузы внутри слов - вообще нонсенс!
    Here I would not agree. I would never say [ироглиф], only [и-йи-РОГ-лиф].

    As to the pauses inside a word - yes, it is a nonsense, I agree.
    Throbert McGee and maxmixiv like this.

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    kib
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Вы чего? Произносится он "Исус", а вот пишется "Иисус", потому и спор возник, что произношение не зависело от написания.
    То же самое "иероглифы" - "ироглифы". Паузы внутри слов - вообще нонсенс!
    Похоже это специфика московского произношения (ты ведь из Москвы, Marcus?) Я лично произношу сдвоенное "и" в обоих случаях, но, скорее всего, уже лет так через 5 все будут говорить "Исус", "ироглифы", - потому что проще. Многим влом произносить даже сдвоенные согласные. Знаете, в КВНе была шутка: " - Ты - руский??? - Да русский, два "с"".
    Я изучаю английский язык и поэтому делаю много ошибок. Но я не прошу Вас исправлять их, Вы можете просто ткнуть меня носом в них, или, точнее, пихнуть их мне в глаза. I'm studying English, and that's why I make a lot of mistakes. But I do not ask you to correct them, you may just stick my nose into them or more exactly stick them into my eyes.
    Всё, что не делается, не всегда делается к лучшему
    Но так же не всегда всё, что не делается, не делается не к худшему. : D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post

    Sorry, Lampada, is it the same as was posted in the original attachment? I did not realize it since the attachment does not work, it shows an error message.
    Or is it just another illustration?

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    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Никогда не произносил иероглифы как ироглифы и никогда такого не слышал, ну или не помню, что слышал.

    Насчёт Иисуса, большинство произносит его как Исус и это правда. Чего только стоит пасхальное:

    Исус воскрес(е), воистину воскрес(е).

    Что касается меня, в большинстве случаев я произношу Иисус как Иисус. Но то, что касается той пасхальной фразы, там только Исус.

    Как-то так
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    Христос воскресе, а не Иисус.

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    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Христос воскресе, а не Иисус.

    Кстати да, чего-то я не туда попёр
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман View Post
    Sorry, Lampada, is it the same as was posted in the original attachment? I did not realize it since the attachment does not work, it shows an error message.
    Or is it just another illustration?
    Да, это чтение и текст Библии. Евангелие от Иоанна. Глава 1. "В начале было слово...".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    Да, это чтение и текст Библии. Евангелие от Иоанна. Глава 1. "В начале было слово...".
    Oh, thanks. I thought she attached something different.

    Then my assumption about the ЯТЬ letter seems to be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by genuinefarmgirl View Post
    I have a Russian AV New Testament that I have been working in and have been wondering how to pronounce words that have two "и" 's in a row. A couple examples:
    очищении (on the end)
    Иисус (at the beginning)

    Also, can anyone tell me what this symbol is - I don't think it is a мягкий знак. It is different (there is a мягкий знак in verse 7).
    You can see it in verse 5 on the second line at the left:
    Verse 5 reads:
    И свет во тьме светит,
    И тьма не объяла его.

    And here verse 7 goes:
    Он пришёл для свидетельства,
    чтобы свидетельствовать о Свете,
    дабы все уверовали чрез него.

    So, is it the same what you saw, Genuinefarmgirl?

    The text is in modern orthography, it does not contain any obsolete letters (like yat' or others).

    Verse 5 just contains 2 usual soft signs (red) and 1 hard sign (blue):
    И свет во тьме светит,
    И тьма не объяла его.

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    Увлечённый спикер genuinefarmgirl's Avatar
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    Marcus
    Христос воскресе, а не Иисус.
    Marcus, stop being funny. X)


    Quote Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман View Post
    Oh, thanks. I thought she attached something different.

    Then my assumption about the ЯТЬ letter seems to be wrong.



    Verse 5 reads:
    И свет во тьме светит,
    И тьма не объяла его.

    And here verse 7 goes:
    Он пришёл для свидетельства,
    чтобы свидетельствовать о Свете,
    дабы все уверовали чрез него.

    So, is it the same what you saw, Genuinefarmgirl?

    The text is in modern orthography, it does not contain any obsolete letters (like yat' or others).

    Verse 5 just contains 2 usual soft signs (red) and 1 hard sign (blue):
    И свет во тьме светит,
    И тьма не объяла его.

    Yes, that is what it is. I should've realized it...
    Glad the attachment finally worked without my having to mess with it...I'm just not good at pictures.


    So, will anyone refresh me on how to pronounce with the твердый знак?

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    kib
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuinefarmgirl View Post
    So, will anyone refresh me on how to pronounce with the твердый знак?
    The твердый и мягкий знаки are not pronounced on their own, they just show that the preceeding consonant is hard or soft.
    Въехать [вй'эхат']
    You do know, don't you, that apostrophe indicates softness. If there's no apostrophe, the consonant should be hard.
    Я изучаю английский язык и поэтому делаю много ошибок. Но я не прошу Вас исправлять их, Вы можете просто ткнуть меня носом в них, или, точнее, пихнуть их мне в глаза. I'm studying English, and that's why I make a lot of mistakes. But I do not ask you to correct them, you may just stick my nose into them or more exactly stick them into my eyes.
    Всё, что не делается, не всегда делается к лучшему
    Но так же не всегда всё, что не делается, не делается не к худшему. : D

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuinefarmgirl View Post
    So, will anyone refresh me on how to pronounce with the твердый знак?
    Твёрдый знак (Ъ) is the rarest letter in the modern Russian alphabet. But sometimes we do need it. As you probably know, it does not have its own sound, but it is rather a "separation sign".

    It is only used after a consonant (mainly, after prefixes ending in a consonant) before Е, Ё, Ю, Я. Твёрдый знак makes the following vowel to be pronounced as if it were at the beginning of the word.
    What I mean: the letters Е, Ё, Ю, Я have two meanings each.

    1) The "й" consonant (English Y in "yes, yard, yoke, young", IPA symbol [j]) + a corresponding vowel: Е = [je], Ё = [jo], Ю = [ju], Я = [ja] (here [j] is the IPA sign for this "Y" sound, it has nothing to do with English "J").
    This pronunication occurs:
    - word-initially: ель, ёж, юг, яд;
    - after any vowel: боец, поёт, уют, моя;
    - after separation signs Ь or Ъ.

    2) When used after a consonant, those letters (Е, Ё, Ю, Я) signal the consonant is "soft" (palatalized) /I hope you know what it means/ + they denote a single vowel without "й" (i.e. without the sound which is indicated as "Y" in English or as [j] in IPA).
    Examples:
    мел [m'el] (the apostroph ' indicates palatalization here), рёв [r'of], ключ [kl'uch], пять [p'at'].

    So, there is a pronunciation difference, when a word has the hard sign (съел "has eaten") and when it does not (сел "sat down"). The two verbs are pronounced differently in Russian. The verb "съел" sounds as [sjel] (you would transcribe it SYEL in English), and the verb "сел" sounds [s'el] with the palatalized "с" but without [j].

    The example from the verse:
    объяла [abjala] (ub-YAH-luh), while "обяла" (which does not exist) would be pronounced as [ab'ala] (uh-B'AH-luh) with the soft "б".
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuinefarmgirl View Post
    Marcus, stop being funny. X)
    What is funny here? Or why am I funny?

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