Thread: Examples of Russian dialects?

I've heard that there are hardly any difference in dialects across Russia, Ukraine Belarus and some of the other USSR countries.. Is this true? Are there any good videos of people speaking with accents?

I saw an interview with the president of Chechnya and he definitely had an accent. But I don't think Russian is actually his mother tongue, so I guess that's a totally different story. What about other regional accents?
Surely people in Vladivostok speak differently from people in Novisibirsk, Moscow, St Petersburg or Kazakhstan?

No dialects in Russia. Just NO DIALECTS.

(it's not regarding those whose mother tongue is not Russian, as Kadyrov, the president of Chechnya).

The only noticeable feature in speaking is unstressed "o" pronouncing exactly as "o" (not as "a" like in the standard Russian). It's the region in the northeast against Moscow: Kostroma, Yaroslavl, Vologda. By the way, educated (say, "posh" ) people speak standard Russian even there.
Also, in the south (Sochi, Krasnodar krai) and, I think, in the areas close to Ukraine some people pronounce "г" as Ukrainian "г".

If you'll ever read any tales about differences about Peterburg and Moscow speaking, stop reading that rubbish. Those differences really existed, but now they don't. Moscow and Peterburg inhabitants speak identical. The same is true for almost the whole Russia, actually.

P.S. When I see on TV people from Ukraine or other former Soviet republics speaking Russian, very often they sound completely like any of my neighbours to me. If I am not mistaken, the prime minister of Armenia sounds like a common Russian to me (and the President of Armenia has a noticeable accent, but anyway his Russian is very good).

Wow, to somebody from Europe this is almost hard to believe. it sounds impossible. Even the USA has accents...
But if you say so... !


So the people who sound like they have accents are simply those with a different mother tongue.....

When I was kid and watched that film, you know, with the man who gets drunk and ends up in Leningrad on New Years Eve (forgot the title), I thought the plot was very silly, since he ought to have been able to notice the difference in how all the other people were speaking.... I thought the whole plot was completely flawed for this reason.. But I guess I was mistaken.

Originally Posted by Johanna

When I was kid and watched that film, you know, with the man who gets drunk and ends up in Leningrad on New Years Eve (forgot the title), I thought the plot was very silly, since he ought to have been able to notice the difference in how all the other people were speaking.... I thought the whole plot was completely flawed for this reason.. But I guess I was mistaken.

Ooooooh my God, Johanna! You made me laugh soooooo much! Thank you!
I think it's the joke of the day.

P.S. The movie title is "Ирония судьбы".

There are some stereotypes about local accents but in cities accents are almost lost. Maybe there are some in far countryside, I am not sure. It's tricky to find Russian native speaker with an expressed local accent.

As for Ukrainian г in Russian speach, I've noticed a funny phenomenon: it switches on and off randomly with no evident reason (I mean in Ukraine, where I live). I caught myself doing that and was surprized. And nobody really feel the difference as I understand.

There are some slightly local differences in word choice. For example in St. Peterburg they say "поребрик" instead of "бордюр", "парадное" instead of "подъезд" and "шавЕрма" instead of "шаурмА". Also I used to know a girl who lives in Saratov and only difference between her speech and mine was that she used the word "базар" instead of "рынок".

Originally Posted by Basil77

There are some slightly local differences in word choice. For example in St. Peterburg they say "поребрик" instead of "бордюр", "парадное" instead of "подъезд" and "шавЕрма" instead of "шаурмА".

Сейчас придёт Оля ( ) и съест вас даже без кетчупа: она очень не любит эту ммм... сказку.

Originally Posted by Basil77

There are some slightly local differences in word choice. For example in St. Peterburg they say "поребрик" instead of "бордюр", "парадное" instead of "подъезд" and "шавЕрма" instead of "шаурмА".

The only true one is the one about шаурма/шаверма. They in St.Pete really say шавЕрма. But even about this one, there is a cafe on Nevsky avenue, right near the central city square, with a huge sign "ШАУРМА". It's an exception, anyway (although it's strange that it's right on Nevsky).

Сейчас придёт Оля ( ) и съест вас даже без кетчупа: она очень не любит эту ммм... сказку.

Почему сказка? Я могу лично засвидетельствовать. Кроме, пожалуй, "парадного", так сейчас только старушки в Питере говорят.
Оля, у меня есть знакомый в Питере, который упорно говорит "поребрик", даже когда приезжает в Москву. И насчёт того, что в Саратове местный рынок все называют "базар" тоже могу засвидетельствовать.

В Киеве рынки под открытым небом назывались базары, а вот Бессарабский рынок был в здании и так же назывался.
Вещевой рынок называли толкучкой.
Сенной на улице был базаром, а потом для него построили здание и он стал называться Сенным рынком.

Originally Posted by Lampada

В Киеве рынки под открытым небом назывались базары, а вот Бессарабский рынок был в здании и так же назывался.
Вещевой рынок называли толкучкой.
Сенной на улице был базаром, а потом для него построили здание и он стал называться Сенным рынком.

Там, где мне приходилось бывать, все рынки (и крытые, и открытые) называли (и называют) рынками. Слово "базар" я слышал в детстве только у Чуковского: "пошла муха на базар и купила самовар". У меня оно почему-то ассоциируется с экзотикой и востоком. Поэтому, когда я приехал в Саратов и услышал постоянное "базар, базар" мне это сильно резануло по ушам.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Оля, у меня есть знакомый в Питере, который упорно говорит "поребрик", даже когда приезжает в Москву.

Ну, один знакомый еще не показатель. Это же не значит, что вообще никто в Питере не говорит "бордюр".

И насчёт того, что в Саратове местный рынок все называют "базар" тоже могу засвидетельствовать.

А про Саратов я вообще ничего не говорила. Я и так тебе верю.

Originally Posted by Оля

Ooooooh my God, Johanna! You made me laugh soooooo much! Thank you!
I think it's the joke of the day.
P.S. The movie title is "Ирония судьбы".

Haha.... glad to be of service --- (hmm.... but it wasn't that funny?! Just an incorrect assumption...) But UR very funny yourself sometimes.. So no probs!

Actually, I think I'm going to see if I can get hold of that film with some English subs. "Ирония судьбы" was on that list that I made, but I didn't realise that this was the same film that I remembered.

To be honest, I think those old Soviet films are partly "insider jokes" that can be hard for non-Russians (and perhaps even younger people?) to understand... (American films can be a bit like that too, but on the other hand American culture is better known across the world...) Not to say those old comedies are not outstanding films, but I think I probably miss a lot of the finer points. I watched "Mimino" a couple of weeks back; another film that I have actually seen in the past (and I like it a lot). But the whole setup with his hotel room and how he got it was not exactly easy to understand...

But back on topic:

So to conclude: There is only ONE Russian dialect and the variations are minimal and only related to a few words. People who appear to have accents are people who speak Russian as a second and not first langauge.

Surely it can't always have been that way though?
It must be the result of some kind of language campaign, or perhaps of people moving around a lot..?

In the 19th century there must have been dialects!!
The illiterate peasants in 19th century rural Russia can't have spoken school-book Russian!!

If you take Germany for example, which is much smaller than Russia (as we know) there are probably at least, what, 30 different dialects and then lots of sub-dialects within the dialects. They can practically hear which village somebody hails from, or which region or town... And Germany too has had lots of upheavals over the years... Same thing in the United Kingdom - it easily has 20 to 30 distinct dialects.

So the situation with Russian accents is really intriguing. But then again Russia is not exactly the "average" European country, lol!! Quite unique..

But this is VERY good thing for learners though!
At least ONE thing about Russian that is uncomplicated...

PS - so what does the Ukrainian G sound like?

Originally Posted by Johanna

PS - so what does the Ukrainian G sound like? [/b]

I'm wondering what the Ukranian R sounds like.

Originally Posted by Johanna

But the whole setup with his hotel room and how he got it was not exactly easy to understand...

Yes, now this situation is hardly imaginable. Well... even socialism had some flaws...

So to conclude: There is only ONE Russian dialect and the variations are minimal and only related to a few words. People who appear to have accents are people who speak Russian as a second and not first langauge.

That's it mainly.

Surely it can't always have been that way though?
It must be the result of some kind of language campaign, or perhaps of people moving around a lot..?

Ah! That was the 20th century. It was full of events and processes breaking traditional way of life and massive population relocations. Someone will surely say more...

In the 19th century there must have been dialects!!
The illiterate peasants in 19th century rural Russia can't have spoken school-book Russian!!

Well, even now there are different levels of colloquial language plus many slangs (related to age, profession etc.) but they seems to be mainly uniform across the Russian-spoken areas.

PS - so what does the Ukrainian G sound like?

In short Ukrainian Г is voiced Х while Russian Г is voiced К. In some variants Ukrainian Г is completely swallowed or replaced with non-syllable schwa. I think Ukrainian Г is close to French R.

Originally Posted by sperk

I'm wondering what the Ukranian R sounds like.

Er?
I think Ukrainian Р is exactly the same as Russian Р.

Johanna, I assume that one thing which is different in Russia and Germany is that Russia, especially the former Soviet Union, is such a vast territory in which Russian, or indeed any Slavic language, was just the indigenous language of a relatively small area. Ukrainian, Byelorussian are languages in their own right because they are located in a certain political territory, but they are pretty close to Russian. I mean, I can read and understand texts in Ukrainian based on what I know about Russian. The differences are smaller than between German and Dutch, for instance, but Dutch itself is technically just another German dialect. Don't tell the Dutch, though. But the local dialect of Germans near the Dutch border is, to all intents and purposes, the same as the Dutch dialect of Dutch people living on the other side of the border. Walk from village to village from, say, Hannover eastwards towards the Netherlands, and you will see how relatively clean HIgh German morphs into Dutch.

In Russia, however, you get a lot more ethnicities whose territories were incorporated into the Soviet Union (or the large political bodies which preceded it, beginning with the Kiev Rus) but who originally did not speak any Slavic language at all. In such territories, there are no dialects but accents of the Russian (2nd) language at best, influenced by the indigenous language. You can compare this situation to the US, where English used to be a second language for the people who first moved there, so that today East Coast and West Coast American English are less distinct from each other than the English spoken in any two British villages 50 miles apart.

In Gemany you get the added problem that the nation as such only formed relatively late in history. France, Britain (or at least England), Russia had long been actual nations with an aristocracy the language of which was seen as the 'standard dialect', when Germany was mostly an collection of fragmented mini states.

There was also a dialectal shift which separated the northern German dialects (called Low German (Niederdeutsch) because the north is less elevated, dropping off towards the sea, whereas the South is more elevated, rising towards the alps, giving us 'High' or rather 'Upper German (Oberdeutsch)). This dialectal shift refers to certain consonantal differences. The northern dialects retain the old consonant system which gives us, for instance, 'water' for 'Wasser' just as it is in English and, I expect, the Scandinavian Germanic languages. The Southern dialects made that shift, replacing a number of consonants.

Then Luther came along and wrote his German Bible translation. Protestantism grew strong in the North, but in effect they had to learn the Biblical German like a 2nd language because Luther had based his translation on Southern German dialects which were practically incomprehensible to Northern Germans. This language replaced local Northern dialects to such an extent that today they seem comparatively weak and rare, even extinct in places, in comparison to Southern dialects. High German, the German you would have to learn as a 2nd language and which is the language of the media, is an artificial construct based on that Biblical language - it is a language which is not actually spoken in any given region of Germany as an indigenous language. It is not the Tsar's (or Moscow's) Russian, not the King's (or Paris') French, not the Queen's English, it is an artificial construct. Some places pride themselves on speaking the most clean High German, for example Hannover, but that just means that the local dialects had in fact been suppressed in these places most effectively.

I live in Remscheid, that's some 40 km from Cologne. Cologne has a distinct dialect which has survived and is very much alive. I can understand it pretty well, though a learner of German would have a hard time with it. Remscheid has a distinct dialect which is almost extinct and is very different from that of Cologne; if a person well-versed in that dialect used it in conversation with me I would probably not be able to follow it. People from more Southern areas, even if they speak what they think is High German, often speak a German so coloured by their Swabian, Frankonian, Saxonian or Bavarian areas that sometimes I just don't understand them. If they actually speak their dialect it might just as well be Suaheli for all it's worth.

Robin

Originally Posted by Johanna

PS - so what does the Ukrainian G sound like?

In this clip
[video:5okfjkch]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM2Gm5coYo4[/video:5okfjkch]

Fedor Dobronravov says at 00:15, "О, це ж дорого", you can hear the Ukrainian G there.

Also here
[video:5okfjkch]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp5X5UaEPHc[/video:5okfjkch]

He says at the beginning of the clip, "Девушка, а дайте мне, пожалуйста, последний бестселлер 'Война галактик'". He pronounces so clearly the Ukrainian G.
Further in the clip he repeats it several times.

Originally Posted by bitpicker

France, Britain (or at least England), Russia had long been actual nations with an aristocracy the language of which was seen as the 'standard dialect'
. . .
the Tsar's Russian, not the King's French, the Queen's English

What a worthwhile idea. In the 20th century the media (news, movies) were entirely Moscow based products. Spreading over the vast Russia's territory this makes all the Russians to speak equally.

Here is one specific to Russia point to add. Just at the begin of the 20th century there was the Russian language reform which changed the alphabet and brough many logical rules into the grammar. Of course all this made any sense only for educated people, which amount (just after world war I and 1917 revolution) was very negligible. But new Russian government (yes, those people from 1917) made an incredible thing using their unlimited power they EDUCATED all the Russian people. As far as the "new Russian" became the subject of education and nobody knew it before there can't be any dialects for the "new Russian". As a result, today we have a huge territory with the people speaking in the only Russian dialect.

Originally Posted by bitpicker

People from more Southern areas, even if they speak what they think is High German, often speak a German so coloured by their Swabian, Frankonian, Saxonian or Bavarian areas that sometimes I just don't understand them.

А учатся они по одному общему учебнику, или для каждой области учебник свой?

Originally Posted by BappaBa

А учатся они по одному общему учебнику, или для каждой области учебник свой?

"High German" - стандарт немецкого языка. Этот язык применют в школе и в учебниках. На самом деле ученики в несколько областях учатся говорить этот язык в школе. Но, конечно, они знают этот язык от телевизора.