Thread: Почему распался Советский Союз? Что происходит в Прибалтике, и немного истории

Lithuanians beat Jews to death with steel bars

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Lithuanians beat Jews to death with steel bars

Do you think that if you put there fake photos and will say that it was Lithuanians who killed these Jewish people in Lietūkis it will be a proof? It won‘t be a proof at all.
Because the first photo has appeared in Polish press and under it was said that it‘s Polish prosecuted pogrom in Kelcai (city in south of Poland) but not the killings in Lietūkis garages. So how should one understand this fact???

But now let‘s talk about second photo. Do you know who is this man standing in the photo? Some kind of Lithuanian? I bet that you have no idea about it because otherwise you wouldn‘t have put this photo there and made such a mistake This man in the photo is SS obarshturmfhurer Joachim Hamman and I guess you understand from his name and surname that he isn‘t Lithuanian but German. Hamman was a leader of Rollkommando Hamann - a small mobile unit which committed mass Jewish murders in Lithuania and also was responsible for large number of murders in Latvia, Daugavpils. So are you still thinking that it‘s Lithuanians who are beating this Jewish people with metal steel bars???

Of course, I don‘t say that there was no Lithuanian who killed a Jewish (some were forced by Nazis), but as I said before most of Lithuanian people tried to save lives of Jewish people because we never had anything against them.
Doesn‘t it really seems strange to you that since middle ages there was no problems between Lithuanians and Jewish and just suddenly when Nazis occupied Lithuania all Lithuanians started to ‘‘hate‘‘ Jewish so much?
It‘s silly to put the blame on Lithuanians for Jewish massacres in my country, when most of the people risked their own lives to save these Jewish people.

But anyway, why are you delving in topics about holocaust, when this thread was started do talk about Russia and collapse of Soviet Union? Don‘t you think that holocaust is off this topic????

Originally Posted by mergike

But now let‘s talk about second photo. Do you know who is this man standing in the photo? Some kind of Lithuanian? I bet that you have no idea about it because otherwise you wouldn‘t have put this photo there and made such a mistake This man in the photo is SS obarshturmfhurer Joachim Hamman and I guess you understand from his name and surname that he isn‘t Lithuanian but German. Hamman was a leader of Rollkommando Hamann - a small mobile unit which committed mass Jewish murders in Lithuania and also was responsible for large number of murders in Latvia, Daugavpils. So are you still thinking that it‘s Lithuanians who are beating this Jewish people with metal steel bars???

Поделись своим научным открытием с Яд Вашем. Там эта гнида названа литовским погромщиком.
Лагеря уничтожения и массовые убийства - Фотографии- Образование - Яд Вашем

And what do you think you‘ll prove by sending another link to the same photos? I said that this man in the photo is Joachim Hamman. Do some research about him if something is not clear to you.
And Romik wasn‘t able to explain why German soldiers were digging out shot jews‘ bodies and tried to burn it. So maybe you can give an answer to this simple question? Do you think that they without any reason were hiding proofs of the crime which according to you was made by Lithuanians??? And if it were Lithuanians who killed these 200 000 jews there then how Nazi knew where exactly all these bodies were burried??? Don‘t you see that all these your charges that Lithuanians killed 200 000 jews when we were occupied and had no power at all do not make any sence at all?
First of all look at yourself before blaming us so perversively..

Do I have to remind you that more than 300,000 citizens of Estonia, almost a third of the population at the time, were affected by deportation, arrests, execution and other acts of repression. As a result of the Soviet takeover, Estonia permanently lost at least 200,000 people or 20% of its population to repressions, exodus, and war

In all, over 200,000 people suffered from Soviet repressions in Latvia, of which some 60% were deported to the Soviet GULAG in Siberia and the Far-East. The Soviet regime forced more than 260,000 Latvians to flee the country.

Between 1940–41, thousands of Lithuanians were arrested and hundreds of political prisoners were arbitrarily executed. More than 17,000 people were deported to Siberia in June 1941. After the German attack on the Soviet Union, the incipient Soviet political apparatus was either destroyed or retreated eastward. Lithuania was then occupied by Nazi Germany for a little over three years. In 1944, the Soviet occupation of Lithuania resumed following the German army's being expelled. Following World War II and the subsequent suppression of the Lithuanian Forest Brothers, Soviet authorities executed thousands of resistance fighters and civilians accused of aiding them. Some 300,000 Lithuanians were deported or sentenced to prison camps on political grounds. It is estimated that Lithuania lost almost 780,000 citizens as a result of Soviet occupation.

Or maybe you want to remember how Russians behaved with Polish people? Torture was used on a wide scale in various prisons, especially those in small towns. Prisoners were scalded with boiling water in Bobrka; in Przemyslany, people had their noses, ears, and fingers cut off and eyes put out; in Czortkow, female inmates had their breasts cut off; and in Drohobycz, victims were bound together with barbed wire. Similar atrocities occurred in Sambor, Stanislawow,Stryj, and Zloczow.

During the years 1939–41, nearly 1.5 million inhabitants of the Soviet-controlled areas of former eastern Poland were deported, of whom 63.1% were Poles or other nationalities and 7.4% were Jews. Only a small number of these deportees survived the war. According to American professor Carroll Quigley, at least one third of the 320,000 Polish prisoners of war captured by the Red Army in 1939 were murdered.

This is taken from Wikipedia, and I mentioned just few countries which you occupied... Soviet war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So after all, when we consider the fact that Russians love so much to celebrate 9th of May, and according to them they definitely have a ‘‘reason‘‘ to be proud of such ‘‘achievements‘‘...I think it says everything what is needed to be said....

Originally Posted by mergike

And what do you think you‘ll prove by sending another link to the same photos? I said that this man in the photo is Joachim Hamman. Do some research about him if something is not clear to you.
And Romik wasn‘t able to explain why German soldiers were digging out shot jews‘ bodies and tried to burn it. So maybe you can give an answer to this simple question? Do you think that they without any reason were hiding proofs of the crime which according to you was made by Lithuanians??? And if it were Lithuanians who killed these 200 000 jews there then how Nazi knew where exactly all these bodies were burried??? Don‘t you see that all these your charges that Lithuanians killed 200 000 jews when we were occupied and had no power at all do not make any sence at all?
First of all look at yourself before blaming us so perversively..

Do I have to remind you that more than 300,000 citizens of Estonia, almost a third of the population at the time, were affected by deportation, arrests, execution and other acts of repression. As a result of the Soviet takeover, Estonia permanently lost at least 200,000 people or 20% of its population to repressions, exodus, and war

In all, over 200,000 people suffered from Soviet repressions in Latvia, of which some 60% were deported to the Soviet GULAG in Siberia and the Far-East. The Soviet regime forced more than 260,000 Latvians to flee the country.

Between 1940–41, thousands of Lithuanians were arrested and hundreds of political prisoners were arbitrarily executed. More than 17,000 people were deported to Siberia in June 1941. After the German attack on the Soviet Union, the incipient Soviet political apparatus was either destroyed or retreated eastward. Lithuania was then occupied by Nazi Germany for a little over three years. In 1944, the Soviet occupation of Lithuania resumed following the German army's being expelled. Following World War II and the subsequent suppression of the Lithuanian Forest Brothers, Soviet authorities executed thousands of resistance fighters and civilians accused of aiding them. Some 300,000 Lithuanians were deported or sentenced to prison camps on political grounds. It is estimated that Lithuania lost almost 780,000 citizens as a result of Soviet occupation.

Or maybe you want to remember how Russians behaved with Polish people? Torture was used on a wide scale in various prisons, especially those in small towns. Prisoners were scalded with boiling water in Bobrka; in Przemyslany, people had their noses, ears, and fingers cut off and eyes put out; in Czortkow, female inmates had their breasts cut off; and in Drohobycz, victims were bound together with barbed wire. Similar atrocities occurred in Sambor, Stanislawow,Stryj, and Zloczow.

During the years 1939–41, nearly 1.5 million inhabitants of the Soviet-controlled areas of former eastern Poland were deported, of whom 63.1% were Poles or other nationalities and 7.4% were Jews. Only a small number of these deportees survived the war. According to American professor Carroll Quigley, at least one third of the 320,000 Polish prisoners of war captured by the Red Army in 1939 were murdered.

This is taken from Wikipedia, and I mentioned just few countries which you occupied... Soviet war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So after all, when we consider the fact that Russians love so much to celebrate 9th of May, and according to them they definitely have a ‘‘reason‘‘ to be proud of such ‘‘achievements‘‘...I think it says everything what is needed to be said....

Einsatzgruppen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As the German invasion began, a massive series of bloody pogroms broke out, some of which were encouraged by the Germans, and all of which were the spontaneous outbreaks of local anti-Semitism.[28] Within the first few weeks of Operation Barbarossa, 40 pogroms had broken out with about 10,000 Jews being killed by local people.[29] The Canadian historian Erich Haberer has written that incidents such as the Jedwabne pogrom were not incidental, but rather "integral" to the Holocaust in Eastern Europe as without local help, the Germans could not have murdered so many so quickly.[30] Upon entering Kaunas on June 25, 1941, the Einsatzgruppen released all of the criminals from the local jail and encouraged them to join the already existing pogrom.[31] Between June 23–27, 1941, 4,000 Jews were killed on the streets of Kaunas by local people, and saw the first massacres of Jews in open pits committed by Lithuanian anti-Semitics.

As for GULAG - it was all political and Russians there were much more than Lithuanians

And Romik wasn‘t able to explain why German soldiers were digging out shot jews‘ bodies and tried to burn it.

Where you found that rubbish? What the sense to dig out bodies to burn them, how that could help to hide proofs of who exactly that did?

Don‘t you see that all these your charges that Lithuanians killed 200 000 jews when we were occupied and had no power at all do not make any sence at all?

There are evidences of acts of executions and it's obviously without local help so many Jews could not be so quickly identified and murdered. Germans didn't know where lived every Jew.

Originally Posted by Romik

Where you found that rubbish? What the sense to dig out bodies to burn them, how that could help to hide proofs of who exactly that did?

There are evidences of acts of executions and it's obviously without local help so many Jews could not be so quickly identified and murdered. Germans didn't know where lived every Jew.

I said to you before to read my previous messages, but as I see you don‘t understood what I said.

I don‘t think that it was convenient at all because even in middle ages Lithuanians gave many rights to Jewish people. And do you really think that there would have been so many Jewish people in Lithuania before WW II if we would have hated them and wanted that they would disappear from our country? It‘s a fact that before Nazis came to Lithuania there were no problems between Lithuanians and Jewish people. And if you didn‘t know it then remember that most of Lithuanians tried to help these innocent Jewish people hiding them in their houses or priests simply forged identity documents of newborn Jewish children, though for that that they could die themselves if Nazis found out this, and many actually died. And you know when Nazis told Lithuanians to kill these Jewish people, most of Lithuanians first of all shot themselves!!!

And there comes the second one.

Of course, I don‘t say that there was no Lithuanian who killed a Jewish (some were forced by Nazis), but as I said before most of Lithuanian people tried to save lives of Jewish people because we never had anything against them.
Doesn‘t it really seems strange to you that since middle ages there was no problems between Lithuanians and Jewish and just suddenly when Nazis occupied Lithuania all Lithuanians started to ‘‘hate‘‘ Jewish so much?
It‘s silly to put the blame on Lithuanians for Jewish massacres in my country, when most of the people risked their own lives to save these Jewish people.

By the way, that‘s not rubbish at all. That‘s a fact. Nazi were doing it not so that someone couldn‘t find out who killed Jews there, but because they wanted that the number of killed Jews in Lithuania wouldn‘t be so big and it wouldn‘t look as such a big crime, because when they started to lose to Russia, they understood that one day they still will have to pay for all these killings. So, as you understand when someone just burry the body of human it takes time while all the bones rots but when the bodies are burned who will count how many Jews were killed? Therefore, if it‘s Lithuanians who according to you killed 200 000 Jews in Lithuania then why Germans were trying to reduce number of dead Jews bodies???? Why they behaved so???? So, it‘s you not me who are saying noncences that Lithuanians who were occupied by Nazi killed all these 200 000 Jews. By the way, then what Nazi soldiers were doing in Lithuania according to you? Picking flowers from the fields of Lithuania? .