Thread: Почему распался Советский Союз? Что происходит в Прибалтике, и немного истории

It seems to have become a national hobby in the Baltic states to talk about this.
Why don't you let the past be the past and look to the future? Latvia and Estonia have a got a lot going for them, and some of those things are actually due to the USSR times. (I won't make the mistake of including Lithuania again because I don't know a lot about that).

I have never discussed it with Latvians and Lithuanians before (except now) but Estonians are always talking about it.
Several times I've heard Finnish and Swedish people tell them to just shut up. That is perhaps insensitive, but lots of Finnish and Swedish people went to Estonia in the Soviet times (my dad for example) and things looked fine. Plus everyone has heard the complaints so many times.

Estonian SSR was only marginally worse off than Finland (and it's always been that way, so that was nothing new for the USSR era) before the 1980s, and in Estonia everyone had a job during the Soviet years, in contrast to Finland which had horrible unemployment and quite bad poverty, causing almost a million to emigrate. Estonians were able to go to Finland on holiday during this time. If it was so terrible, they could have stayed, but practically nobody did.

The problems with the USSR are already well known and for the Baltic states, most of the bad things happened in the 1940s and early 50s, and after the death of Stalin, things calmed down. Some good things DID come out of the Soviet years - for example lots of good public buildings and structures, and high level of education.

Scandinavia for example was full of goodwill and wanted to help in the 1990s. Also the EU. But there was so much criminality coming from there and it was like "we just want aid and compensation and compassion, but we are going to steal your cars and rob your houses".

The Nazis did not build schools and hospitals in the countries they invaded! It's a different situation.

Remember that the Soviets / Russians thought that they were doing the right thing towards the Baltics. Liberating etc. They thought they were helping working class people and would build communism etc, etc. Good goals, as far as they were concerned. And the Baltic states were not rich countries before the Soviet era. A lot of people might have got better lives as USSR citizens than they otherwise would have had.

And yes, everyone already knows that this came at a wrong/immoral price of some being deported and that religion was wrongly supressed etc.

Also, all the Soviet SSRs were run by local people in practically all important places, weren't they? It was not like Russians from Moscow came in and took over the country. Lots of local people joined the communist party and generally participated in the socialist state.

Perhaps it's more convenient to just say "it's all the Russians fault" than admit that a majority probably (I don't know, but I'd guess) went along or actively participated in USSR life. Either because they were cynics or because they genuinely saw that some good things came out of it, or believed in the ideals.

My point is: You are in the EU, you are in Nato, you've got your independence with practically no bloodshed. Things could be a lot worse: The USSR had already educated people very well, looked after their health and got them a job and somewhere to live. Despite this, everybody sympathisizes with what the Baltic states went through.
But now it's time to look to the future!

As far as I understand, no one from Baltic states cares to recall those events and constantly talk about them. It's just when they're told they should give some other languages besides their only ones the official status, they simply explain why that can't be done.

Also, all the Soviet SSRs were run by local people in practically all important places, weren't they? It was not like Russians from Moscow came in and took over the country. Lots of local people joined the communist party and generally participated in the socialist state.

Actually it was - if someone wanted to do something that Moscow disapproved, they immediately sent tanks inside.
Google "Prague Spring" or "Budapest 1956" and these countries weren't even part of Soviet Union.

"it's all the Russians fault"

I do not blame Russians, I blame communists and their defective by design ideology.

Why don't you let the past be the past and look to the future?

Because as I said - Russia does not want to abandon and deal with its past - it is constantly glorifying it - just like in Soviet times.
If Russia's official propaganda constantly says that USSR liberated us - what should we do - simply agree with them?
Do you think that Lithuania should simply forgive bastards like Golovatov and let him walk free after what he did?

Estonians were able to go to Finland on holiday during this time.

All "holidayer" groups were infiltrated by KGB agents that watched after any potential "stayers".

Originally Posted by nulle

I do not blame Russians

Ok, that's a good thing because nobody here is responsible for it and they probably feel bad that the USSR time is so disliked in the Baltic states.

Since most people on the forum are Russians and all this is already known to them, perhaps we should just leave the topic.

Nobody here has defended Stalin's idea to incorporate the Baltic states or deport civilians.

Personally I like Russian culture and I think that Russian people are among the nicest and most sincere & fun Europeans. It's a pity that all the USSR legacy is preventing many people from seeing what is really a beautiful and interesting country with fundamentally friendly and fun people.

Perhaps you should get yourself a visa and check it out Nulle? Just go against the stream a bit. That doesn't mean that you agree with anything that Stalin did etc - just that look to the future and not the past. Btw, being trilingual with Latvian, Russian and English is very impressive in the eyes of most people. After all, Russian is a language spoken by over 200 million people.
Or go to Belarus or Ukraine (don't need a visa for Ukraine).