Thread: Алексей Анатольевич Навальный (Blogger Alexei Navalny)

Originally Posted by Doomer

If one would analyse his actions one would ask a question to oneself: does he really fight against corruption or he's fighting against government and Russian values?

I think he is fighting the government using its weakness, which is widespread corruption. And that is totally legitimate. He is definitely not fighting "Russian values" for the lack of this term. There's no such thing as national values. If you think I'm wrong, please name at least five Russian values and then five Chinese values. There are other national things, like national character, but no national values.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

There's no such thing as national values. If you think I'm wrong, please name at least five Russian values and then five Chinese values. There are other national things, like national character, but no national values.

If there is no such thing as national values then one would be more than enough, isn't it?
But I'll name two, easy ones
patriotism is first
culture will be second

Originally Posted by Doomer

If there is no such thing as national values then one would be more than enough, isn't it?
But I'll name two, easy ones
patriotism is first
culture will be second

So, based on what you just said, what are the Russian values? What Russian values does Navalniy fight?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

So, based on what you just said, what are the Russian values?

I hope you can read, they written above

Originally Posted by Crocodile

What Russian values does Navalniy fight?

both of what I wrote

Originally Posted by Doomer

both of what I wrote

I honestly fail to see how he does that. Also, those "values" are as much Russian as they are Chinese, Australian and Zulu. I want to see specific examples of how Navalniy fights culture. Is he burning books in public or something?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

I honestly fail to see how he does that. Also, those "values" are as much Russian as they are Chinese, Australian and Zulu. I want to see specific examples of how Navalniy fights culture. Is he burning books in public or something?

Perhaps you would have wanted to see something like матрешка or олимпийский мишка but if the values can be used in any country it doesn't make them invaluable but makes more sense in them
Patriotism can be a value of any country but the way it's expressed is different in any country
He never has done anything to support patriotism in Russia but have done some things which considered anti-patriotic (by me at least) violation of Russian Coat of Arms is one of them

кстати по поводу его яростной борьбы с коррупцией, тыц - Навальный - жулик. Доказано! - YouTube

Originally Posted by Doomer

кстати по поводу его яростной борьбы с коррупцией, тыц - Навальный - жулик. Доказано! - YouTube

Я знаю как некоторые могут играть словами, чтобы создавалось впечатление правдивости слов. И вот несколько соображений, которые не дают мне относиться к ролику серьёзно.

1.

"На сайте роспил . инфо висит красивая цифра: мы не дали украсть 338 миллионов рублей "

Где на сайте сказано, что эти 338 миллионов относятся именно к тому делу о котором идёт речь в ролике?


2.

"15 марта 2011 года ООО строительно-торговая компания "Мегатек" подало жалобу в комиссию УФАС..."
"жалоба А.А.Навльным была подана 28 марта 2011 года"

Хотелось бы, для начала, достоверно узнать, дейтвительно ли эти жалобы ПОДАНЫ (а не РАССМОТРЕНЫ) в указанные сроки, .


Ну а в конце порадовал комментарий

"Возможно, он это сделал для отчёта перед Заказчиком".

Тут открывается очень широкий простор для следствий. Например:

- значит и "Мегатек" подал жалобу (возможно) по заказу Заказчика

- если Навальный не исполняет с рвением заказы Заказчика,(а только лишь присваивает чужие заслуги, то есть фактически саботирует (возможную) подрывную деятельность Заказчика), значит он (возможно) таки работает на благо Родины.

ну и так далее.

Originally Posted by Doomer

Perhaps you would have wanted to see something like матрешка or олимпийский мишка but if the values can be used in any country it doesn't make them invaluable but makes more sense in them

Please, remember that you're talking to a very simple-minded crocodile, so sometimes I have hard time following your lightning-fast and three-levels-deep thought. In such cases, you have to walk me through it in a simpler manner. How, on Earth, have you jumped from Navalniy's fight with the present Russian government to crocodile's probable perception of матрешка or олимпийский мишка? What do they have to do with each other? Btw, neither матрешка nor олимпийский мишка are values. The former is a toy and a latter is a mascot of Moscow Olympic Games of 1980.

Originally Posted by Doomer

Patriotism can be a value of any country but the way it's expressed is different in any country

Patriotism can only be a value in patriot's eyes. Or in the government officials' eyes in order to send the patriots to promote or defend those officials' interests. A value is a social property.

Originally Posted by Doomer

He never has done anything to support patriotism in Russia but have done some things which considered anti-patriotic (by me at least) violation of Russian Coat of Arms is one of them

кстати по поводу его яростной борьбы с коррупцией, тыц - Навальный - жулик. Доказано! - YouTube

Alright, so since you have cited a dirty propaganda, let me explain how the propaganda works using a simple example:

DOOMER DECEIVES RUSSIAN PATRIOTS - PROVEN

A Russian-speaking forum member Doomer repeatedly occused Navalniy of being non-patriotic. But, let's look at Doomer himself. He had specified his location as Chicago, IL. Doomer himself is not a Russian patriot because he left Russia and did not want to share the fate of his motherland during the turbulent times. He prefer to live in the US and is being paid US dollars. Can anybody expect Doomer to honestly care about Russian patriotism? Of course, not! Doomer is no judge for Navalniy who is getting prosecuted for his care for Russia. Unlike Doomer, Navalniy lives in Moscow and actively participates in the political life of his motherland. And Doomer is trying to disguise himself as a Russian patriot just to fight Navalniy and derail the real patriots' actions.

You see how the propaganda is being created? So, please do not insult the other forum member's intelligence by re-posting some dirty propaganda. Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

There's no such thing as national values.

Is that really true? I would point out that Americans tend to value individualism over loyalty to the extended family/clan, for example. So isn't that an "American value"? (Although not in the sense of being exclusively American and not found at all in other nations -- only in the sense that it is characteristic of America [and some other countries], but is far from being globally universal.)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Is that really true? I would point out that Americans tend to value individualism over loyalty to the extended family/clan, for example. So isn't that an "American value"? (Although not in the sense of being exclusively American and not found at all in other nations -- only in the sense that it is characteristic of America [and some other countries], but is far from being globally universal.)

Entrepreneurialism and a "money is king" attitude are American values, I think.

But Russia is really diverse and had a relatively extreme and unusual history over the last 100 years. Maybe because of all the changes they've been through, it's just hard for them to identify with a particular national value.

But for what it's worth I think Russians seem relatively romantic about relationships, really value poetry and literature, and try to help out their family members throughout their lifetimes. They think it's important to always "be there" for their friends, regardless what the friend needs. And I think they value education a lot.

I am comparing to other European countries, particularly in Northern Europe and thoaw things are what stand out to me.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Is that really true? I would point out that Americans tend to value individualism over loyalty to the extended family/clan, for example. So isn't that an "American value"? (Although not in the sense of being exclusively American and not found at all in other nations -- only in the sense that it is characteristic of America [and some other countries], but is far from being globally universal.)

I see your point. In my opinion, a value is a social property, not a national property. Like, a democratic society would value individualism and the society of slaveholders would value obedience. Using a raw approximation, at the same point in time the Northern Americans valued equality whilst the Southern Americans valued bourne supremacy. I think, a nation is too broad a term, which spans multiple societies, cultures and subcultures.