Thread: Ukraine, the EU and Russia (suspension of EU - Ukraine talks)

Like I said, I spent quite a while there, and reported a bit about it here at MR. (before the trolling started properly, and you could still have a interesting exchanges on this site)

The bigger cities in Belarus are renovated, clean, free of graffiti and very few ads.
Belarus is in a better state of repair/renovation than Ukraine.

It's true that their salaries are lower, but everything you need there, for everyday life, is subsidised. They are not paying market prices for a lot of things. The rents are extremely low, public transport is next to free, their jobs pay for room and board during their holidays etc, Healthcare, university etc free. So for everyday expenses they need less money. And everybody has a job, essentially.

I don't think the salaries there are lower than in places like Romania or Latvia. I'm pretty sure they are better off than Romanians and a lot of people in Ukraine. However, I think retired people on state pensions can just about make it through the month. That's not unique for Belarus though, and I understand that the older generation supports Lukashenko almost universally, regardless.

The problem kicks in if they want a new car, a lot of petrol, expensive electronic gadgets, designer clothes or a foreign holiday. Imported "luxury" stuff. I think there's also a housing shortage, not massive, but affecting young people.

I asked lots of people there what they thought about the current gov't because I was genuinely interested. About 70% were ok with it. Although they had some criticism they felt "better-the-devil-you-know" about Lukashenko. About 30% really hated Lukashenko, out of the people I spoke with. Those were younger people, in Minsk, essentially. One woman I spoke quite a lot with, in Minsk, said that she thought that Lukashenko was mentally ill, lol. However, she was upper middle class or whatever, in Belarus, and from what I could tell, her lifestyle was similar to my own, apart from she was annoyed that she couldn't afford chic holidays abroad. I respect everyone's view who lives ther and what goes on in Belarus is not my business who runs Belarus. But it p-sses me off that there are so many blatant lies about this country in European media.

Originally Posted by Hanna

The problem kicks in if they want a new car, a lot of petrol, expensive electronic gadgets, designer clothes or a foreign holiday. Imported "luxury" stuff. I think there's also a housing shortage, not massive, but affecting young people.

That kind of problem has been created artificially by their government, which I've been telling you several times now, but with no luck getting it through your pink colored glasses. The problem is that cars, "expensive electronic gadgets", designer clothes cost way more there than those in EU or in the U.S.! That's all because of the insane custom fees, tax rates for those resellers that sell them etc. Did you know that you cannot buy a car in that country for less than $5,000? (I mean a car that rides, of course) No matter how old it is, because the older a car is, the bigger custom fees they apply for it. Then, an iPad Air that you can buy for just $929 in the U.S. (128 GB, Wi-Fi + LTE) will cost you over $1,500 in that country!!! That's insane, especially considering how their salaries compare with the ones in the U.S.! A pair of Lewis jeans that you can get for $50-100 at any shopping mall in NY, will be priced at several hundred bucks in that country! Again, what a rich prosperous nation it must be to afford things at such prices... No wonder lots of people there hate that system and count days till its collapse.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

That kind of problem has been created artificially by their government, which I've been telling you several times now, but with no luck getting it through your pink colored glasses. The problem is that cars, "expensive electronic gadgets", designer clothes cost way more there than those in EU or in the U.S.! That's all because of the insane custom fees, tax rates for those resellers that sell them etc. Did you know that you cannot buy a car in that country for less than $5,000? (I mean a car that rides, of course) No matter how old it is, because the older a car is, the bigger custom fees they apply for it. Then, an iPad Air that you can buy for just $929 in the U.S. (128 GB, Wi-Fi + LTE) will cost you over $1,500 in that country!!! That's insane, especially considering how their salaries compare with the ones in the U.S.! A pair of Lewis jeans that you can get for $50-100 at any shopping mall in NY, will be priced at several hundred bucks in that country! Again, what a rich prosperous nation it must be to afford things at such prices... No wonder lots of people there hate that system and count days till its collapse.

Yes, because NOBODY can be TRULY happy and fulfilled in life until they have a pair of Levis, an iPad Air, purchased for the equivalent US retail price!

Get that wrong and you are doomed to eternal misery.... Thanks for clarifying that, "Eric".

Alles klar!


And as for your info on Belarus; the last time this topic came up, you claimed that Belarussians were not allowed to leave the country, until somebody corrected you. So it's nice that you have read up a bit.

If you want to convince anyone with your iPad example, please post links to a Belarussian, Russian, German and American vendor selling iPad Airs. We are all aware that electronics and clothes are more expensive in Europe for a number of perfectly legitimate reasons and there is nothing sinister about that.

Originally Posted by Hanna

If you want to convince anyone with your iPad example, please post links to a Belarussian, Russian, German and American vendor selling iPad Airs. We are all aware that electronics and clothes are more expensive in Europe for a number of perfectly legitimate reasons and there is nothing sinister about that.

iPad Air - Buy iPad Air with Free Shipping - Apple Store (U.S.) <--- The U.S. Apple Stores' offer (the top one costs $929)
iPad <--- The German Apple Stores' offer (the top one costs 869 Euros, or around $1173)
iPad Air – Купите iPad Air с бесплатной доставкой - Apple Store ( <--- The Russian Apple Stores' offer (you'll have to do some math there, the top one costs 36,990 Russian rubles, that will be around $1121)

Yes, in Russia you can get it for a lower price than in Germany, but I wasn't talking about Russia, was I? =))

Now, the most interesting part. There are no official Apple Stores in Belarus at all!!! What I've been able to find is some kind of "premium reseller store", but it's doubtful it even has that status. Anyway, here's the webpage:

iPad Air купить в Минске i-Store

Don't get shocked with what you see at the first glance, because their currency rates can actually shock anyone! So, that nice price tag of "12,299,000" in their local currency becomes $1317, by their current rates. More expensive than that in Russia, more expensive than that in Germany. Yes, my information about the $1,500 price was a bit outdated, but you've got the idea. =))

Originally Posted by Hanna

Thanks for clarifying that, "Eric".

And by the way, what kind of mean person does it take to be trying to insult someone by putting their name in quotes all the time?...