Thread: Ukraine, the EU and Russia (suspension of EU - Ukraine talks)

Originally Posted by Hanna

As a Scandinavian you know perfectly well that they won jackpot in the oil lottery, and if it wasn't for that, they'd be begging to join the EU. Their only other natural resource is fish, and that's where their previous expertise laid. When the oil runs out, they will join the EU or whatever has replaced it.

That's because Britain is not yet over losing the empire, and because of the close ties with other English speaking countries, particularly USA and the Commonwealth. It's not because Brits have anything against free trade at all.

The UK is used to running things, but is only the 3rd biggest country/economy in the EU, and has to compromise and work with French, Germans and others as equal. Having to compromise with Germans and others is just a bit of a blow to national self esteem.

Another reason is that Britain uses different measurements, drives on the other side of the road, has different electronic plugs and some other aspects that don't gel well with the EU - and that the EU has tried to change, to the fury of many here. Again it's minor stuff. Educated people in the UK know that regardless of their feelings about it, it's not feasible to leave the EU at this point and nobody has any illusions that it will happen any time soon. Hell will freeze over before there is a refendum - or they will announce a referendum when they are already certain what the outcome will be.

The situation with Cyprus may be different - I'm not up to scratch, likewise a few countries in Eastern Europe who got a more favourable assesment than they perhaps should have, for political/ideological reasons. And a few countries in Southern Europe who cooked the books together with Goldman Sachs, to qualify for the Euro, when really they did not meet the requirements.

As for Ukraine: If it completely turned its back on Russia (and sorted out a few other things) I am sure things would be back on track. I visited both Ukraine and Romania in 2011 and my impression was that Ukraine was in a better shape economically than Romania which qualified for the EU. Unlike Turkey, Ukraine is fully located in Europe and has a Christian heritage (some EU countries are against Turkey for these two reasons). Ukraine's human rights may not be world class but it's probably better than Turkey and no worse than Romania.

If not a full membership, then certainly free trade and a customs union in a longer perspective.

Latvia is another example of an ex USSR country that qualified and completely turned its back on Russia.
Perhaps a fraction better off than Ukraine, from the point of view of a visitor, but not much.
Social benefits in Latvia consists of a sack of oatmeal for food and a couple of hundred dollars to cover rent according to a man I spoke with. He was a perfectly competent techie, but unable to get a job and support himself were he lived.

I would be extremely surprised, if Latvia's factories are EU standard. Parts of the country is literally falling to pieces because they haven't done maintenance in 25 years. It was quite shocking to see. People living in absolute squalor next to a site where the EU is spending big bucks on renovating some old fortress that few would care about and that can surely wait a few more years.

If Ukraine REALLY wanted to, it could become a partner, or a member - I think.
Whether it would help the economy is another story. Like Antonio said - it was a recipe for disaster, for some, and it leaves the door open for exploitation as people in Romania are saying.
Plus, it would be at the expense of relations with Russia.

I don't care either way; I just want the people in Ukraine to have more hope for a good future. I think they need to choose East or West and the sooner they do it, the better.

LOL! Norway would be begging while several countries in the EU are near bankruptcy and would be already under if not for being enslaved by IMF loans/bankers?!? Please...

'That's because Britain is not yet over losing the empire, and because of the close ties with other English speaking countries, particularly USA and the Commonwealth. It's not because Brits have anything against free trade at all.'
LOL! That's ridiculous. They know the EU is a sham and they see what happens with other countries which become slaves to the EU system. Check EUSSR videos and notice how the overwhelming pattern is that those in charge are not elected but appointed. The freedoms are reduced or eliminated and 'free trade?' LOL! Tell that to every country not named Germany.

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