Thread: Russia's immigration policy and public opinion

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

I asked my neigbour, a truck driver, what he thought about immigrants. Bring'em on he said brandishing a wrench. I don't think this country needs immigrants - this country needs organic food, disposable anti-dundruff wooshangas and fast Internet. With our unsurpassed computer geniuses highly sophisticated robots will soon be doing all the grafting and people will be living like gods. Genetic engineers will creat a new breed of people to compensate for the low birth rate.

If those "geniuses" aren't bought by some US company...

Originally Posted by Gollandski Yozh

To come back to the question you "requested" me to answer. No, if you would replace every Dutchman by a Chinese who takes with him Chinese culture, language etc. and doesn't blend in with the original population the Dutch nation is gone.

Precisely. And if the EU does not change its immigration policy to fit the model you're describing below, this is what is going to happen. This is happening in Europe already, and this is happening in the US. It is also happening in Russia in the Far East, and they are very unhappy about it. The latter might just be the reason why the new Russian regulations are strict.

Because EU immigration is a mess. I don't advocate opening the gates and let us be flooded by foreigners. I want immigrants to

1. know or be willing to immediately upon arrival learn Dutch

2. have skills that are economically or otherwise beneficial to the Netherlands

3. have a job upon arrival

In short, Dutch companies should go "man hunting" in Eastern Europe mostly, to find those people that will meet these criteria. I'm not talking about spontaneous immigration, I'm talking about controlled immigration to our benefit. These people will not become social parias, since they have a job and speak Dutch, and also not poor, because if companies are willing to go and get them, they must be able to do something right to earn a living.

Now, you may be thinking about asylum seekers. They, if they are genuine asylum seekers, are still welcome. I see that as a moral duty, but "fakes" should be turned back asap. No leeches.

Agreed.

The American immigration model doesn't work anymore today. But it has worked wonders in the past. I propose selection at the gate, NOT a green card lottery.

It does not work anymore because the immigration is not the same as it used to be. The world is not the same. Two hundred years ago, an immigrant would be surrounded by the American culture, no exception. Now he is surrounded by his "domestic" culture everywhere, JB explains that very well.

G Yozh, exactly where do you live in the US? Your belief that "quality" (affluent? educated?) immigrants just can't wait to become Americanized is a delusion. My previous posts were about both rich and poor, legal and illegal. There are a lot more Chinese math wizards here in Pasadena (California Institute of Technology - "Cal Tech") than in the Silicon Valley and none of them want to assimilate. They want American $ not American culture. Along with all the Chinese billionaires (doctors, lawyers, bankers businessmen) in San Marino, Arcadia, and Monterey Park, these people have systematically taken over the local politics and changed the laws to replace the traditional local culture with their own. All those annoying laws that preserved historical buildings, 700 year old oak trees, Hispanic or Anglo custom and Californian tradition have been voted out or altered by the new (Chinese) politicians that the Chinese voted into office.

You want immigration laws to require people to meet all kinds of criteria to guaranty that every immigrant will assimilate. And what if once they are here they decide to maintain and promote their own culture? Are you planning to get rid of the antidiscrimination laws that protect them? You also talk about how they will marry into the local population and thus automatically become assimilated. Well I work in a mostly Armenian (wealthy, educated) city and they openly speak of their disgust with those of their ethnic group that marry outside of the Armenian community. The family and social pressures put on them to maintain the Armenian genetic family line and live in a strictly Armenian culture are very strong. Even the second and third generations want to marry only Armenian. This is also true for other ethnic groups I work with.
So G Yozh, what is the basis for all of your theories?

G Yozh is Dutch (Gollandski, eh ). So if they want American dollars, they should go to America. There you can ask of them whatever you want. But they, for some reason, chose to go to Holland, so we can ask whatever we want. No unreasonable demands, of course, but those three that Yozhik mentioned should be quite enough.

A large number of the immigrants to America meet G Yozh's criteria and more. They come here with high educations, fluent English, jobs and/or enough cash to set up their own business. But they don't want to be part of the traditional culture. So G Yozh's 3 rules for immigration already don't work.
I have read that Japan's laws are designed to prevent the loss of Japanese culture but I don't know what they are.Maybe someone else knows?

Originally Posted by JB

A large number of the immigrants to America meet G Yozh's criteria and more. They come here with high educations, fluent English, jobs and/or enough cash to set up their own business. But they don't want to be part of the traditional culture. So G Yozh's 3 rules for immigration already don't work.

As far as I know, the biggest part of the American immigration is not professional. As soon as a professional (GY's criteria give or take some) establishes his/her foot on the American soil, he/she may legally bring in his/her parents, spouse and children, then the parents can take care of the rest of their children, the spouse about his/her parents, the other children about their children, and so on and on and on. I don’t think this knot is simple to undo, and cutting it is not an option given the current state of affairs in the states, humanism and all.

Secondly, the "high education" that you mention is not what GY apparently had in mind. I think he meant a university degree.

In America "high education" means a university degree of a minimum of 4 years. According to the US Dept. of Justice August 2002 Annual Report 42,620 professionals with advanced degrees (a masters, PHD, MD, etc) were legal immigrants . Two other groups listed as priority workers and professionals ( people with university or college degrees and special skills or professions) totaling about 80,000 were legal immigrants. Investors (people who have over a million dollars and open a business) who immigrated = 193.
The total immigration for employment preference was 17% out of 1,064,318 legal immigrants because 64% was family sponsored (which is the first priority of the Immigration Dept.)
And you are correct that it cannot be stopped. G Yozh's theory that it can be controlled is true in that you can make rules for the people to follow to get in a country, but there are no laws or rules that will make people change their culture. If a country allows immigration it needs to be prepared for all the changes that are inevitable.

Originally Posted by JB

G Yozh, exactly where do you live in the US? Your belief that "quality" (affluent? educated?) immigrants just can't wait to become Americanized is a delusion. My previous posts were about both rich and poor, legal and illegal. There are a lot more Chinese math wizards here in Pasadena (California Institute of Technology - "Cal Tech") than in the Silicon Valley and none of them want to assimilate. They want American $ not American culture. Along with all the Chinese billionaires (doctors, lawyers, bankers businessmen) in San Marino, Arcadia, and Monterey Park, these people have systematically taken over the local politics and changed the laws to replace the traditional local culture with their own.

Speaking as one of the hordes of Asian immigrants(or children of them) actively invading your homeland, I do have to agree. I don't know about other immigrant groups, but Asians tend to preserve their culture and language - although we do learn English, for the most part. I don't live in a town large enough to have immigrant communities, but I would imagine it would make more sense to move in with other immigrants. Well, actually, there is a Hispanic community, but that doesn't really count, since Hispanics are actually the majority around here. As for marrying, I would be pretty open about marrying a white or Hispanic person. Maybe if I grew up in a big Asian community that'd be different, though.

This is happening in Europe already, and this is happening in the US. It is also happening in Russia in the Far East,

Heh, I don't really think that will happen in the US anytime soon. We're kind of a small population here. With other minority groups, that's a possibility.

All those annoying laws that preserved historical buildings, 700 year old oak trees, Hispanic or Anglo custom and Californian tradition have been voted out or altered by the new (Chinese) politicians that the Chinese voted into office.

Are there really THAT many Chinese there? I would think the combined Hispanic and Anglo population would overpower them in votes. Well, I'm sorry we had to destroy your beautiful oak trees. Sorry, but they were so very un-Chinese. We don't have big trees in China, dammit. So we must destroy them. Heh, not to mention your historical buildings. We Chinese love to run bulldozers through American historical buildings because they're not Chinese. We must destroy all non-Chinese buildings because we are taking over. And we also enjoy destroying great Californian tradition. We are outlaw all Quinceanera celebration among Hispanic females. It's not Chinese. Also we are outlaw all American holiday such as "President Day" and "Veterans Day." Also we are outlaw all Great American's Barbecue for health concern unless Chinese food is serve. Also we are outlaw all Catholic. Not Chinese. We are secretly taking over. YOU CANNOT STOP US!

(DISCLAIMER: If anyone can't tell, I'm just kidding, so nobody get flamingly mad at me, OK? I usually don't get into political debates because I don't know what I'm talking about anyway. There are probably a bunch of things about the Chinese communities in California I don't know about. But I couldn't resist the opportunity to have a little fun )

I used to live in San Marino, and ill attest that there are THAT many there. My high school was 70 percent asian. kind of odd for living in california.

on another note, last semester i was reading in a russian newspaper some article that said in 20 years, russia will be 1/4 asian with the current trends.

Originally Posted by drew881

I used to live in San Marino, and ill attest that there are THAT many there. My high school was 70 percent asian. kind of odd for living in california.

on another note, last semester i was reading in a russian newspaper some article that said in 20 years, russia will be 1/4 asian with the current trends.

Whoa! I thought you guys had a large Hispanic population, like where I live. I guess it depends on the area.

As for Russia being 1/4 Asian, is that Central Asians or East Asians? I heard there was a large Korean population in the Russian Far East...

I don't really think the same will apply to the US. If anything, Hispanics and blacks might overpopulate whites pretty soon...

Every projection I've seen suggests that if current trends continue Hispanics will soon make up the greatest percentage of the US population. As I recall, this is attributed not so much to immigration as to higher birthrates.

Personally, I have no problem with this or any other population ethnicity trend. Immigration waves and population booms have been freaking people out all through US history. Oh, no, it's the Italians! Oh, no, it's the Irish! Oh, no, it's the Mexicans! Oh, no, it's the Chinese! Things change, but it all works out. Or at least doesn't get any crappier than it already was.

Personally, I couldn't give the smallest hoot whether an immigrant to the UK chooses to assimilate or prefers to stay amongst his own. So long as he has to live by the same laws I do then anything else is his business.

I'm not Russian though, and have never discussed immigration with a Russian, so I wont presume to directly answer Barbara's original question.

An interesting twist. What makes the Hispanics different? They are the same immigrants, with a culture different from yours, with a culture they are unwilling to give up, and with a birth rate that is higher than anything you can imagine. So it is not Chinese but Hispanic in the US. What is the difference? It is happening in the US.

And that remark by our mentally challenged friend. "Live by the same laws" they will, just after they change them to suit their needs, which does not take a lot of effort in a democratic state with majoritarian election. Not to mention that nobody cares about laws all that much, they will refuse to hire because you "don’t speak the language our customers/patients/etc speak", no racial discrimination at all, just business (refer the message by JB for more information on that).

The Asians Are Coming! The Asians Are Coming!

You're such a fucktard bad manners, do you really think there's anyone left on this board who doesn't see your obsession with cultural purity for what it really is?

Originally Posted by scotcher

The Asians Are Coming! The Asians Are Coming!

Having more reading comprehension problems, scotchie? Fail to notice my remark on the Hispanics?

You're such a fucktard bad manners, do you really think there's anyone left on this board who doesn't see your obsession with cultural purity for what it really is?

What does that have to do with your inability to think logically? "Live by the same laws." When the Angles came in your country, they lived by the same laws as your folk, which is to say by the sword. Now the sword is replaced with the parliament election, which makes these things so easier.

Oh and by the way, next time you cannot support your argument with anything but personal attack, you needn't type anything.

I'm not engaging with you bad manners, I am mocking you, so I didn't and don't feel any need to respond to any of your points.

Have fun sweetheart.

Originally Posted by drew881

I used to live in San Marino, and ill attest that there are THAT many there. My high school was 70 percent asian.

I need to read more carefully: it took me some while to realise you weren't talking about the San Marino which is completely surrounded by Italy. '70% Asian?', thought I, 'Fascinating anomaly. Must look into it.'

And down to earth I came.

Oh, and in case anyone's curious, the Asian population of my San Marino appears to be negligible.

Pravit, you need to come visit So California. Yes we currently have the largest Asian population in the USA, and the BEST dim sum .
As for Hispanics, the Us Dept of Justice 2002 report lists the 5 leading countries of origin for immigrants as Mexico (206,426), India (70,290), China (56,246), Philippines (53,154), and Vietnam (35,531).
The primary destinations for US immigrants from 1971-2001 were; #1 California, #2 New York, #3 Florida, #4 Texas, #5 New Jersey, #6 Illinois.
Yes, Hispanics are the fastest growing ethnic group in the USA, because of birth rates AND immigration rates. But Asians are second.

Originally Posted by Pravit

Originally Posted by drew881

I used to live in San Marino, and ill attest that there are THAT many there. My high school was 70 percent asian. kind of odd for living in california.

on another note, last semester i was reading in a russian newspaper some article that said in 20 years, russia will be 1/4 asian with the current trends.

Whoa! I thought you guys had a large Hispanic population, like where I live. I guess it depends on the area.

As for Russia being 1/4 Asian, is that Central Asians or East Asians? I heard there was a large Korean population in the Russian Far East...

I don't really think the same will apply to the US. If anything, Hispanics and blacks might overpopulate whites pretty soon...

sorry didnt specify, it said chinese, not asian. So 1/4 chinese.

WHOA! Real Chinese food...*mouth waters*. Around here all we have is dark dirty little "Super China Buffet"s with food under heat lamps...