Thread: Russia: old system - new system

Originally Posted by Hanna

So since you are not a communist, then the only other conclusion from your usage of ridiculous terminology like this... is that you are "trolling".

Of course he is, have you just noticed?

So since you are not a communist, then the only other conclusion from your usage of ridiculous terminology like this... is that you are "trolling".

grim capitalism is a term Basil used. look back at one of his posts. I would think you would agree with his assertion..based on your posts.

Because it's absolutely unreal to turn things back

Why?

Originally Posted by Basil77

Of course he is, have you just noticed?

No I am just a blue-eyed idealist who wants to believe the best of everyone.... +and freedom and justice for all...
Pity, this could have been an interesting discussion if not for all the trolling.

As a said before. 9 million excuses. Now its because i am a troll. My prediction you will continue to practice the capitalist institution for the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by Nerms

grim capitalism is a term Basil used. look back at one of his posts. I would think you would agree with his assertion..based on your posts.

Once again you've distorted my words. I said "a savage grin of capitalism", it's a widespread ideologeme.

Why?

Trololo.

Oh well its your country. If you like it the way it currently is with capitalism then that is fine with me. I was under the impression you didnt.

Originally Posted by Nerms

Why?

YouTube - Epic Why Guy
Just reminded...

For those that lived in the USSR, how is your daily life different now versus when you lived in the USSR?

Thank you,

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

For those that lived in the USSR, how is your daily life different now versus when you lived in the USSR?

It's very different. But don't forget that 20 years have passed, and it's not only old oder vs. new order, but past vs present (technology changed a lot).

First things that come to mind: there were MUCH less cars on the streets, only a few channels on TV, the assortment of products in stores was smaller and imported goods were very hard to get. And there were almost no ads.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

It's very different. But don't forget that 20 years have passed, and it's not only old oder vs. new order, but past vs present (technology changed a lot).

First things that come to mind: there were MUCH less cars on the streets, only a few channels on TV, the assortment of products in stores was smaller and imported goods were very hard to get. And there were almost no ads.

True 20 years is a long time. As an American I really have no concept of equal pay and the other goals of communism/socialism. I don't get how for example a doctor and a janitor make basically the same pay. Don't get that at all. If you asked me about daily life under capitalism I would say I have no answer as that's all I've ever known.

Scott

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

And there were almost no ads.

Amen!

Originally Posted by fortheether

As an American I really have no concept of equal pay... I don't get how for example a doctor and a janitor make basically the same pay.

=) There was no equal pay. =)

Размеры зарплаты зависели от занимаемой должности и варьировались в брежневские времена от минимальной зарплаты 60 руб. в месяц до, как утверждали, 2500 руб. в месяц у Генерального секретаря ЦК КПСС.

Инженеры получали, начиная где-то со 105 руб. в месяц до 250 руб. При этом на предприятиях существовали премиальные фонды, которые могли повысить зарплату на 40-50%. Рабочие могли получать и 200 рублей, и 300, и 500 рублей в зависимости от квалификации.

Зарплаты учителей колебались в пределах от тех же 105 до 200-250 рублей. То же самое было у врачей. Вузовский доцент получал 320 руб., а профессор 500 руб. в месяц. Зарплата военных была выше всех: начинающий лейтенант получал 250-280 руб. в месяц.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

=) There was no equal pay. =)

Yep. ) People of different occupations had different salaries. The trick was that people of the same occupation had basically the same payment throughout the country (with some exceptions).

Based on my family experience: an engineer got 190 roubles per month, a nurse got around 90 roubles. Student's scholarship was 40-50 roubles.
People who worked in the Nothern regions had bigger salaries due to bad weather conditions, and men could easily have 600-800 roubles per month and more (it was common to move there for a few years to earn some quick/big money).

But most things that people wanted to buy were quite cheap, weren't they? As I remember hearing, the problem was not that people didn't have money but that some things that people wanted (fashionable clothes) were hard to get or not available.

Originally Posted by Hanna

But most things that people wanted to buy were quite cheap, weren't they? As I remember hearing, the problem was not that people didn't have money but that some things that people wanted (fashionable clothes) were hard to get or not available.

Yes. Generally so. In the market economy, when people have excess cash you'll have inflation on your hands, but this doesn't really work with planning economy because all prices are fixed. So, if you can't raise the prices and if you don't want to bankrupt the only option left for you is to create deficit. Of course this stimulates black markets.
Money was not as important in USSR as 'connections' with 'necessary people' who could 'get' you something you want in exchange for something they want. Such 'exchange of services' was very common in those days.

Food and services were usually very cheap. One year rent could be 60-70 roubles. So a family of two people with below average salary (say 150+150) would have had to spend only 20% of their shared one month's income to pay their YEAR rent. Many food products cost mere kopecks. Books (and people did read a lot) were also not expensive. BTW, newspapers were so cheap (often 0.01-0.03 roubles), that my Granny once bought me a few kilos of new newspapers to bring to school, when we had to bring some old paper for a paper recycling competition. ))))

On the other hand some things were ridiculously expensive (those that were considered unnecessary luxury by the state). For example the cheapest car cost around 3000 roubles, and a good one cost much more (more than 10000). The upside of this unbalance was that the state spent a great deal of money to develop a public transportation system, and you literally could get anywhere by public transport.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Books (and people did read a lot) were also not expensive.

Это смотря какие книги. Хорошие книги можно было купить, как правило, на черном рынке.В основном, интересовала тема культуры, к примеру, серия "Жизнь в искусстве", цены были умеренны: от 15 (Домье) до 30 (Рафаэль) рублей. Причём, 30, практически было не по карману. А на модные детективы, всяких Стругацких, Булгаковых и макулатурный "20 лет спустя" (один из первых макулатурных) даже и не замахивались.

Ну, и обменивали какие-то достанные по случаю книжки на нужные в книгобменах. Да и магазинные цены были не так уж и дешевы. Например, макулатурный "Три мушкетёра" (тираж 1.000.000) 1976 года стоил 1 р. 36 коп., тоненький Свифт, 1979 года (тираж 200.000) - 1 р. 80 коп., первый том с/с Стивенсона (библиотека "Огонёк"), 1981 года (тираж 600.000) - 2 р. 70 коп., первый том Томаса Манна, 1987 года (тираж 300.000) - 3 р. 90 коп.

Сравнивать с современным изобилием, как по произведениям, так и по оформлению и ценам, просто смешно.