Thread: Latest from Ukraine

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Не понимаю, почему это важно (ядерное разоружение Украины). С ядерным оружием у новой страны и ответственность была бы другая, и отношение к ней соответствующее, да и не потянула бы Украина финансово, как мне кажется. Россия с нашими западными партнёрами в таких условиях продавили бы ядерное разоружение Украины, но чуть позже.
При насильственном разделе СССР инициатива всё равно должна была исходить из Москвы, и так наплевать на миллионы соотечественников, которые вдруг оказались в другой стране...
Там можно было совсем о других границах договариваться, и уж Крым, конечно, нельзя было отдавать.

It (nuclear disarmament) is important because it was believed that Ukraine could be independent and would have Crimea as part of its territory if they didn't not have a nuclear weapon. So, if you look at it from their p.o.v., the evidence is that this arrangement or trade did not work or benefit them in the end. The ultimate result is that they lost this 'deal.' In fact, you pro-Putin people should be thanking Khrushchev. He convinced Ukraine not to have nuclear weapons. If they declined, Russia would not be interfering with the conflict right now.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

It (nuclear disarmament) is important because it was believed that Ukraine could be independent and would have Crimea as part of its territory if they didn't not have a nuclear weapon. So, if you look at it from their p.o.v., the evidence is that this arrangement or trade did not work or benefit them in the end. The ultimate result is that they lost this 'deal.' In fact, you pro-Putin people should be thanking Khrushchev. He convinced Ukraine not to have nuclear weapons. If they declined, Russia would not be interfering with the conflict right now.

Well, I'm not by all means a pro-Putin, but I must say Ukraine had blown the 'deal' from their end by happily waiving the Crimean Autonomy status in 1995 they had originally agreed upon. Ukrainian government was legally ok with Crimea electing their own President. But, as soon as the newly elected President had said that Crimea will build strong economic and cultural ties with Russia, the Supreme Rada had decided in 1995 that the Crimean Constitution of 1992 is all of a sudden unconstitutional, so they fired the Crimean President and abolished the Crimean Autonomy. The Autonomy status had been a vital condition to the 'deal'. So, since Ukraine had violated the 'deal', the 'deal' is no longer valid. So, unfortunately, IMHO Ukraine can't complain, but should finally grow up and start assuming responsibility for their actions. Dixi.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Well, I'm not by all means a pro-Putin, but I must say Ukraine had blown the 'deal' from their end by happily waiving the Crimean Autonomy status in 1995 they had originally agreed upon. Ukrainian government was legally ok with Crimea electing their own President. But, as soon as the newly elected President had said that Crimea will build strong economic and cultural ties with Russia, the Supreme Rada had decided in 1995 that the Crimean Constitution of 1992 is all of a sudden unconstitutional, so they fired the Crimean President and abolished the Crimean Autonomy. The Autonomy status had been a vital condition to the 'deal'. So, since Ukraine had violated the 'deal', the 'deal' is no longer valid. So, unfortunately, IMHO Ukraine can't complain, but should finally grow up and start assuming responsibility for their actions. Dixi.

LOL! Please....at least be honest.... But, Putin apologists rarely are. Imho, Ukraine reacted as most countries would if some party or party group was trying to undermine it and take away part of its territory.

MAR | Data | Chronology for Crimean Russians in Ukraine

It appears, since the early 90s, that someone was trying to destabilize it and encourage it to separate entirely from the rest of Ukraine. What a sham deal Ukraine got. Sure, many citizens wanted autonomy, more autonomy or outright separation and into Russia's sphere but I'm playing devil's advocate here. Think about it if it was something happening to Russia. If one of its republics was trying to separate???? Oh right, Russia has strict and extreme laws on this. You cannot even advocate it. Ooops.