Thread: Latest from Ukraine

Speaking about Crimea, Ukrainian goverment recently hired some German research institute to figure out current public opinion there and here is the result (note that the source is highly biased and anti-Russian):

One year later, most Crimeans prefer Russia - Chicago Tribune

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Our troops had to force the deputies into the Oblast Council hall so that these representatives would vote in favor of our initiatives.

Ok, so the deputies were forced to enable a vital question so that the people could vote. Why is the referendum a farce? I'm honestly not getting it.
Here's an example. The province of Newfoundland joined Canada after the WWII as a result of the referendum. The decision was made in a very narrow margin.
The majority of people, as you might know, wanted to join the US, but the Britain-appointed government did not even ask that question.
I honestly think the Newfoundland's referendum was a farce. Do you?

Originally Posted by Basil77

Speaking about Crimea, Ukrainian goverment recently hired some German research institute to figure out current public opinion there and here is the result (note that the source is highly biased and anti-Russian):

One year later, most Crimeans prefer Russia - Chicago Tribune

Ho hum.... blah, blah. Would they even take 'poll answers' that would criticize union with Russia? Probably not.

Btw, do any of you get paid by Putin?

The Trolls on Putin's Payroll | TechPresident

Even Crimeans opposed to annexation seem resigned to Russian rule

It's tough to be a Ukrainian patriot in occupied Crimea

This 'support' for Russia will probably change when the money runs out and they are not as well off?

Oh, another question: if you are a Russian citizen or ethnic Russian and you criticize (or even are anti-Putin) Putin/the Government, does that make you 'Anti-Russian?' I know that question is difficult for you so feel free to take your time before answering.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Ok, so the deputies were forced to enable a vital question so that the people could vote. Why is the referendum a farce? I'm honestly not getting it.
Here's an example. The province of Newfoundland joined Canada after the WWII as a result of the referendum. The decision was made in a very narrow margin.
The majority of people, as you might know, wanted to join the US, but the Britain-appointed government did not even ask that question.
I honestly think the Newfoundland's referendum was a farce. Do you?

Perhaps. I'm not an expert on this subject, though. There is controversy about it and people are allowed to freely debate it (unlike some places).

Was the referendum result the truth? - Ed Roberts - The Compass

Imho, it's not comparable to the Crimea situation. They didn't have army pointing guns at people's heads, I suspect.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

The brazen lie #2 is:
"We had absolutely no support from the people, not to mention the army."
He didn't say that. In reality he says that they didn't have any support from the government authorities. Government authorities are not all of the people.
So, I would highly recommend to check the translation in order not to look ridiculous. (Это не переход на личности, а добрый совет.)

I did. I asked some Russian-speaking friends to watch the video and interpret for me. In summary, they concluded Girkin confirmed what Ukrainian authorities were saying. 2) Crimean authorities 'didn't vote' - the results were falsified and there was not a clear majority. They needed the army there and that's what forced local government to vote. So, like I said, (Вытерто. Л.).

So, like I said, you are a liar. No surprise.

И где там наш "непредвзятый ненаезжаемый модератор"? Или это не переход на личности?! Не пора ли призвать к ответственности этого распоясовшегося тролля?

Originally Posted by SergeMak

И где там наш "непредвзятый ненаезжаемый модератор"? Или это не переход на личности?! Не пора ли призвать к ответственности этого распоясовшегося тролля?

LOL.
How am I trolling? I discussed the topic with you. You asked me to get it translated and I did. You claimed the English translation (from the articles) were lies but Russian speakers I talked to say it's accurate. I summarized what they told me.

This is the only part you said that I believe is true: "In reality he says that they didn't have any support from the government authorities." I didn't argue that. I didn't even argue that there was support from the people. But, not a majority. The army had to compel the local government. The pro-Putin army there also used propaganda and shut down the Ukraine media. I asserted Girlkin's confession plus these additional circumstances led to the annexation. All in all, it was done unethically contrary to previous claims. You have nothing to respond with so you make 'troll' accusations.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

LOL.
How am I trolling? I discussed the topic with you. You asked me to get it translated and I did. You claimed the English translation (from the articles) were lies but Russian speakers I talked to say it's accurate. I summarized what they told me.

This is the only part you said that I believe is true: "In reality he says that they didn't have any support from the government authorities." I didn't argue that. I didn't even argue that there was support from the people. But, not a majority. The army had to compel the local government. The pro-Putin army there also used propaganda and shut down the Ukraine media. I asserted Girlkin's confession plus these additional circumstances led to the annexation. All in all, it was done unethically contrary to previous claims. You have nothing to respond with so you make 'troll' accusations.

I didn't ask you to translate anything to me. You published some links and I said they are full of lies. I clearly showed why I think so. One article printed a picture impertinent to the content of the article, another has a questionable map, two other links distorted the translation of Strelkov's interview. I didn't even begin to discuss the Strelkov's figure, his "confession" and his role in all what has happened. I didn't call you a lier, I only said that the media you are repeating lies and it's seen. In response you said me rude things. Only trolls act this way.
Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

I didn't ask you to translate anything to me. You published some links and I said they are full of lies. I clearly showed why I think so. One article printed a picture impertinent to the content of the article, another has a questionable map, two other links distorted the translation of Strelkov's interview. I didn't even begin to discuss the Strelkov's figure, his "confession" and his role in all what has happened. I didn't call you a lier, I only said that the media you are repeating lies and it's seen. In response you said me rude things. Only trolls act this way.
Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, no.

You explicitly told me to 'check the translation.' This is exactly the phrases you posted:

'So, I would highly recommend to check the translation in order not to look ridiculous.

Anyone who know*s Russian will say that I am right." (* -> edits - by me)

You were saying I look ridiculous or I am but no matter. I let that go. You asked to get the translation and then you implied that anyone who understood Russian would concur with you. And that was incorrect. Maybe, you don't mean to lie. You just believe your interpretations even though I asked people who also understood and speak Russian and they came to different conclusions which mostly match the English-based articles I presented. I explained their summary and it does make sense. That's hardly trolling.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

И где там наш "непредвзятый ненаезжаемый модератор"? Или это не переход на личности?! Не пора ли призвать к ответственности этого распоясовшегося тролля?

Не было меня у компьютера, вот только из тюрьмы пришла, племянника навещала.
По правде говоря, неохота эту тему читать: она, как я и боялась, превратилась в борьбу пропаганд. Никто ни в чём никого не переубедит. Но да, все переходы на личности будут вытираться.
"Лжеца" сейчас найду.
Интересно, кто здесь в Политике непредвзятый?

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Imho, it's not comparable to the Crimea situation. They didn't have army pointing guns at people's heads, I suspect.

I think you still refuse to make a distinction and confuse between the people and the government. Won't you agree? Crimean the Newfoundland
situations were two examples of the government forced to ask or not ask a specific question. The government was either Britain-controlled or
Strelkov & Co. controlled. The control in both cases meant a potential violence for non-compliance.
The second example, when you could allegdely say the people voted with the gun pointed to their head were the elections in Afghanistan
and Iraq in which the army and the armed police were present in the poll stations. That did not happen in Crimea.