Thread: Jewish genocide against Russia, Ukraine..........

Hee, Chris. Sometime I'll explain my Theory of Blasphemy, but I suspect that this is neither the time nor the place for such a treatise.

I apologize if i offended you. seriously, not sarcastically. I guess i should kinda keep my smart comments to myself when it concerns such matters. Hope you dont you hate me now! thanks for pointing that out

Chris
YES

Offended me? Judas on a pogo stick, NO. I like blasphemy. I was serious when I said I'd post my treatise on it some time.

You = not offensive

Racist hatemongering = offensive

Hope that clears my position up

haha! very much so. great minds think alike dont they!!!!

Линдзи, I don't know why you are ascribing me what I have never said. In particular, I have not called you any name nor, indeed, have I addressed you in this thread so far.

The word "bashing" that I used, which was perhaps slightly too energetic, was used figuratively. I actually meant "critique". I am sick of hearing that they poor Jews have suffered more than any other people.

Now, I suggest that you get your facts straight before you continue. Such as me and Stalin being Russian. Grossly incorrect.

That said, I totally agree that saying that an entire ethnicity is guilty of something is but idiotic, and that the theory that the Russian Revolution (which one?) was a Jewish plot, while does have a touch of sympathetic madness, fails to be anything but madness.

Jasper, Byelorussia lost one quarter to one third of its population, and Ukraine somewhat less. Overall, the USSR lost 27 million in that war, of which no more than 9 million were battle losses. The rest is the result of the German policy in the occupied territories. The Holocaust is estimated to have killed 6 million Jews. Even if we assume that they all were Soviet Jews, there are still 13 million killed in the USSR.

Ah, when I said "Russian" regarding Stalin I meant "Pоссиянин." Translation faux pas. In my mind citizenship is dominant over ethnicity when defining one's nationality, but as was established in the "Why do you look so old" thread, that is clearly not the case for all of us here.

And it occurs to me that I have no idea where you are from. So basically, I recant this one sentence:

You're a Russian, bad manners, but you shouldn't be blamed for Stalin's relocation of the Crimean Tatars.

but the intention behind it remains, and it seems a bit petty to pick that out as the major flaw in my argument.

Originally Posted by bad manners

The word "bashing" that I used, which was perhaps slightly too energetic, was used figuratively. I actually meant "critique". I am sick of hearing that they poor Jews have suffered more than any other people.

Fine, you're sick of hearing about it. But that's not the issue in this thread; the issue is whether Jews bear all guilt for the USSR's crimes against humanity. To which I can easily reply, "Durrr, no." That you want take this as an opportunity to go ahead and "bash" (figuratively, of course, how could anyone not infer that you actually meant "critique"? Stupid us) strikes me as a bit creepy, honestly. A real critique is based on concrete fact and well-constructed logic, not a nutter's ravings.

And no, I don't find his madness sympathetic at all.

Originally Posted by Линдзи

but the intention behind it remains, and it seems a bit petty to pick that out as the major flaw in my argument.

Did I not say that I fully agree with your argument?

Fine, you're sick of hearing about it. But that's not the issue in this thread; the issue is whether Jews bear all guilt for the USSR's crimes against humanity.

And I said quite clearly in the very first message of mine in this thread that I do not think the Jews (as a whole) guilty of anything in the USSR. Why don't you try and read what I write for a change?

That you want take this as an opportunity to go ahead and "bash" (figuratively, of course, how could anyone not infer that you actually meant "critique"? Stupid us) strikes me as a bit creepy, honestly. A real critique is based on concrete fact and well-constructed logic, not a nutter's ravings.

I did not want to go ahead and bash anyone. Read what I write, for fuck's sake!

Originally Posted by bad manners

.

Overall, the USSR lost 27 million in that war, of which no more than 9 million were battle losses. The rest is the result of the German policy in the occupied territories. The Holocaust is estimated to have killed 6 million Jews. Even if we assume that they all were Soviet Jews, there are still 13 million killed in the USSR.

Yes, Germans killed many more Russians, Belorussians, Ukrainians than Jews. However, it was not done in the systematic force that the Nazis setup in Poland to kill jews. Specifically, gassing, shooting and burying jews in mass graves was a system that was well studied, adjusted, and perfected, so that the Nazis could immediately kill jews in the most efficient way. As Germany occupied territory in RUssia and further east, yes there were labor camps set up (I have been to one in Latvia which the USSR set up a memorial for), but nothing on the scale of the death camps that were used in Poland to exterminate Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and other races.

Originally Posted by bad manners

On the other hand, I do think that a bit of Jewish bashing is in order.

Originally Posted by bad manners

I did not want to go ahead and bash anyone. Read what I write, for @@@@'s sake!

Wow, I apologize DEEPLY (and sarcastically) for my lack of reading comprehension. Whatever, I'm done with this thread. Eagle, you are deluded about this matter, and bad manners, you are clearly unwilling to take ownership of your own words. Listening to hatemongers raises my blood pressure far too much, and I'd prefer to live a long healthy life.

Enjoy your bigotry.

Originally Posted by Линдзи

You're a Russian, bad manners, but you shouldn't be blamed for Stalin's relocation of the Crimean Tatars.

Actually, Stalin was Georgian - kind of nullifies your argument - not that you would ever agree with this, especially in the light of a certain recent thread where you lot have flatly refused to see the difference between the "Russians" and the Russians...

P.S. I don't even expect you to answer this, so save your breath.

Originally Posted by drew881

Originally Posted by bad manners

. Overall, the USSR lost 27 million in that war, of which no more than 9 million were battle losses. The rest is the result of the German policy in the occupied territories. The Holocaust is estimated to have killed 6 million Jews. Even if we assume that they all were Soviet Jews, there are still 13 million killed in the USSR.

Yes, Germans killed many more Russians, Belorussians, Ukrainians than Jews. However, it was not done in the systematic force that the Nazis setup in Poland to kill jews. Specifically, gassing, shooting and burying jews in mass graves was a system that was well studied, adjusted, and perfected, so that the Nazis could immediately kill jews in the most efficient way. As Germany occupied territory in RUssia and further east, yes there were labor camps set up (I have been to one in Latvia which the USSR set up a memorial for), but nothing on the scale of the death camps that were used in Poland to exterminate Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and other races.

Indeed, the Germans killed 6 million in a systematic way and 13 million asystematically. Drew, get your head examined.

Actually, Stalin was Georgian - kind of nullifies your argument

It doesn't. It was an example. The intent of that example was clear, so it still remains an argument. If she had either said "You're Austrian, bad manners (which he isn't, I know)" or "you're German, bad manners, but you shouldn't be blamed for Hitler's deeds", the point would have been made. Nitpicking is far too easy.

Originally Posted by Jasper May

Actually, Stalin was Georgian - kind of nullifies your argument

It doesn't. It was an example. The intent of that example was clear, so it still remains an argument. If she had either said "You're Austrian, bad manners (which he isn't, I know)" or "you're German, bad manners, but you shouldn't be blamed for Hitler's deeds", the point would have been made. Nitpicking is far too easy.

Now, morons come in packs... Опять двадцатьпять! Georgian != Russian. Russian != Georgian. Warum versta je dat niet? It's like saying "bad manners, we know you're Japanese, but you shouldn't be blamed for Pinochet's deeds". Маразм крепчал, и танки наши быстры...

I still do not understand why I was in that argument in the first place, I denounced the theory of "national guilt" in my first message. That went unnoticed and now I am a firmly established hatemonger only because I thought a bit of fairness would not hurt. I can but say that the Zionist propaganda works brilliantly.

Waarom begrijp ik dat niet? Maybe you think Russian=Georgian and viceversa, but apparently VendingMachine doesn't. But never mind.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

killed 6 million in a systematic way and 13 million asystematically. Drew, get your head examined.

How can you deny this? Did the nazis set up a vast concentration and death camp system across the occupied territories of the Soviet Union? They set up some camps, but it was nothing like the situation in poland. The warsaw ghetto for example, auschwitz, etc...Sure the Nazis killed many Russians when they entered villages, probably lining them up and shooting them, and there were the insertion troops but the extermination of jews was on another level. The nazis did this as well in territories before entering the Soviet Union, but it wasnt efficient enough, thus evolving to death camps, and the switch from shooting/hanging to gassing. Im not saying that the murder of Russians was asystematic, but that it wasnt nearly as planned out.

I can only suggest what VendingMachine has already suggested, drew881. Have you ever heard of railroads? Those that were transporting the citizens of the USSR out of the country to Germany where they worked to death? In those same death camps and certain other places? Have you ever heard of another great German invention, the mobile gas chamber? Have you ever heard about the German practice of gathering the population of a village in a barn, and setting the barn on fire?

And what is so special about a system if another one (the less systematic one, according to you) is far more frightening?

Maybe people overlook how effective Hitler was in killing Russians because Stalin was so much better at it?

Hey, I got it - if you want to become a dictator, make sure you kill your millions without planning it out beforehand, wantom killing on the spot, way to go! You won't be seen as such a bad guy in the end!

Originally Posted by begemot

Maybe people overlook how effective Hitler was in killing Russians because Stalin was so much better at it?

This is a good example of brainwashing. The Stalin's guilt is exaggerated. Let's count. Hitler killed 30 mln russians let's imagine that Stalin equals Hitler, then Stalin killed 30 mln russians too. So, they both killed 60 millions, it is about a 1/2 of USSR in that times. Guys tell me how it could be that in less than 30 years population of USSR increased to 280 million people? Are we, russians, faster than rabbits?
BTW, the old generation remember 3,5 million germans who were captives and worked in every city, but nobody told me about millions Stalin's prisoners.