Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

AFAIK Mr Snowden is not going to get the political asylum, but he can get the temporary one, meant for refugees who can't return home because of danger to their life. However, the difference might not matter, as long as he would at last be able to leave the airport.
His application will be reviewed for up to three months, and if it will be approved, he'll get the refugee status, allowing him to live and work in Russia for one year. The term can be prolonged each 12 months. If the refugee status will be lost, he will be obliged to leave the country in a month.
With this status Snowden will be able to take his time and even try to gain the Russian citizenship. Theoretically.
According to an international agreement, he will also be protected from the extradition.
Ironically, according to the formal rules, there won't be need for Putin's interference for this procedure, the ministry handles such matters by itself.
We can only hope that Snowden won't mess up our diplomacy anymore.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

He really did himself write that thing huh?

I have no reason to doubt it, plus there is a signature.

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

We can only hope that Snowden won't mess up our diplomacy anymore.

What has Snowden done against Russia's diplomacy? Would you rather he would have gone elsewhere?
I think it's an opportunity. Most of the rest of the world (short of the USA and the EU) will admire Russia if it handles this elegantly. Teaching the "land of the free" something about allowing free speech and dissenting views in the process.

And in your view, is there ANYTHING that Russia can do, that would make the USA like it? Short of selling the whole country, including the oil, for $1.... and let the USA run things. In a way, that has already been tried, briefly. And it didn't help anyone, or create a good relationship. The USA "needs" enemies, present and "legacy". Russia fluctuates between present and legacy.... And that's after essentially already selling out.

As for the Asylum request: Huh, there is not a FORM for this?! You can just phrase it as you want, in your own words...?
That was a surprise to me.

As for the Asylum request: Huh, there is not a FORM for this?! You can just phrase it as you want, in your own words...?
That was a surprise to me.

My guess is that he did not have access to the appropriate forms, and so the human rights activists and the lawyer he met with probably advised him to just write it out on a piece of paper. Perhaps he has to make the written request before they can provide him with additional forms. I dunno.

The application is written in a typically Russian style as if it was dictated to Snowden word by word)). Even the date format is typically Russian, not American. Such applications, written in Russian, on blank sheets of paper are dime a dozen here. But Snowden or whoever dictated him the text missed to enumerate the reasons for his request. So, I’m afraid, the plea can be easily rejected on formal grounds by some anonymous clerk of the Russian Migration Service.

4. he is very attentive to detail, but tends to be a selective listener.

I'm unsuccessfully racking my mind what qualities of Snowden's handwriting could characterize his as a selective listener as well as his attentiveness to details. Could you unveil the mistery?

Originally Posted by diogen_

I'm unsuccessfully racking my mind what qualities of Snowden's handwriting could characterize his as a selective listener as well as his attentiveness to details. Could you unveil the mistery?

The lower case letter "e" is not open, but filled in. That trait indicates selective listening.

His lower case letter "i" is dotted directly above the "i". That trait indicates attention to detail.

Granted, it is a very short sample, and it was written in print rather than cursive, so my analysis is rather limited. But his signature reveals a lot about his emotional state. He is clearly experiencing a lot of regret, most likely not for his actions, but rather for the situation he is in. He slashed at his own name repeatedly as if trying to scratch it out. Classic sign of self-loathing.

Deborski, thanks a lot. Never could imagine that vowels could expose so much about personal traits.


Snowden is definitely caught between the Devil of American imperialism and the deepest blue sea of Russian democracy)))

Originally Posted by Deborski

The lower case letter "e" is not open, but filled in. That trait indicates selective listening.

His lower case letter "i" is dotted directly above the "i". That trait indicates attention to detail.

Granted, it is a very short sample, and it was written in print rather than cursive, so my analysis is rather limited. But his signature reveals a lot about his emotional state. He is clearly experiencing a lot of regret, most likely not for his actions, but rather for the situation he is in. He slashed at his own name repeatedly as if trying to scratch it out. Classic sign of self-loathing.

I have heard that in France, they do (or did until recently) require handwriting samples from people applying from professional jobs. Like a handwritten letter. The employer then has it analyzed to get a personality summary - to check if it's the kind of person they'd like to hire, or not.
Hence people in France take the matter of penmanship very seriously and it's taught extensively in school - they have very elegant handwriting.
It's a bit of a science in some countries.
Personally, I must be a bit schizophrenic - my handwriting varies quite a bit.

Originally Posted by diogen_

The application is written in a typically Russian style as if it was dictated to Snowden word by word)). Even the date format is typically Russian, not American. Such applications, written in Russian, on blank sheets of paper are dime a dozen here. But Snowden or whoever dictated him the text missed to enumerate the reasons for his request. So, I’m afraid, the plea can be easily rejected on formal grounds by some anonymous clerk of the Russian Migration Service.

Apparently Russia had 28,000 political refugees if I remember the stats from RT correctly. Over something like 5 years. That was a surprise to me. Do they actually live off the state year after year, like in Western Europe, or does Russia have some clever process that lets them work from Day 1? Is it the same crowd that comes to the EU, i.e. Afghans, Somalians, Iraqis and Libyans? Or others...?

28,000 is obviously a drop in the ocean compared with Russia's population, but it's much larger than I had expected. I can't recall how many were accepted. Below are figures for the EU.
Anyone's got any idea how many refugees the USA takes?

Number of applications:


Number of "Positive" decisions ( you can see why Northern Europe has a problem.... But anyone who wants to see a truly "white" country, go to the Baltic states. )

Originally Posted by Hanna

I have heard that in France, they do (or did until recently) require handwriting samples from people applying from professional jobs. Like a handwritten letter. The employer then has it analyzed to get a personality summary - to check if it's the kind of person they'd like to hire, or not.
Hence people in France take the matter of penmanship very seriously and it's taught extensively in school - they have very elegant handwriting.
It's a bit of a science in some countries.
Personally, I must be a bit schizophrenic - my handwriting varies quite a bit.

Handwriting analysis certainly used to be a big part of the hiring process in Europe as well as at some US companies. They do the analysis primarily to weed out the trait of dishonesty, which is an easy one to spot. Some companies probably still use handwriting analysis - although cursive is being taught less and less these days, and I can see the time coming when cursive will die out completely.

Sloppy handwriting does not necessarily indicate a "bad" personality or a "schizophrenic." For example, the American serial killer, Ted Bundy, had perfectly flawless handwriting. Like a typewriter. The kind of writing that shows a brilliant and focused mind. Unfortunately, you can't tell from someone's writing if they are a killer. You can tell if they might have argumentative tendencies, sometimes you can tell if they are physically or mentally impaired or using drugs. You can even tell if the person is emotional. But a psychopath like Bundy is so adept at blending in and appearing normal, that even his handwriting appears flawless and "normal."

From Snowden's handwriting, I see someone who is going through a lot of emotional turmoil right now, but who has a great deal of determination and is an honest person - not a liar.

Originally Posted by Deborski

I found a sample of Edward Snowden's handwriting at this site: http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/ci/st...%D0%B0%3F.html

The sample is his application for asylum in the Russian Federation, and it appears to have been made in a hurry on whatever paper he could find, ostensibly because he is stuck in the transit zone at Sheremetevo.

Attachment 778

I am a certified handwriting analyst and just briefly looking at this sample, I can make the following observations:

1. Snowden's signature where he scratches out his name but also forms a strong triangle shape on the end - reveals self loathing but also determination. This could have to do with the current situation he is in rather than referencing a constant frame of mind. He also seems angry, annoyed (with himself).

2. The writer's preference for printing rather than cursive, while typical of his generation, also reveals someone who prefers privacy, hides his personality from others

3. The round o's with no inner loops show honesty, bluntness

4. he is very attentive to detail, but tends to be a selective listener.

Yeah, but people are TAUGHT to write letters in a certain way! For example, I was taught to make a little loop inside the "o" !!!
Part of it is just convenience; how to write as fast as possible while still making it look legible.

I was taught the "new" Scandinavian cursive, then moved to a school that preferred the "old" cursive and had to change.
This looks different from, for example the German cursive which has different.

And if you write a language that uses a lot of vowels, like Finnish, then of course you get a bit sloppy with all the vowels!
etc! Swediish has very long words and you get a bit sloppy towards the end of the word sometimes, whereas English has shorter words.
Also the flow is halted if you constantly have to stop and put umlauts and accents on the words.
Surely it can't be a reliable representation of the personality!

I'd say this would only work if you apply it on people who were taught the same type of cursive. For example comparing yours and mine would be apples with pears, wouldn't it? We were taught different cursive applicable to different languages.

But perhaps with you analyzing Snowden, it's a relevant match; same language at least but possibly he was taught a different type of writing from you? He's not even writing cursive at all.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yeah, but people are TAUGHT to write letters in a certain way! For example, I was taught to make a little loop inside the "o" !!!
Part of it is just convenience; how to write as fast as possible while still making it look legible.

I was taught the "new" Scandinavian cursive, then moved to a school that preferred the "old" cursive and had to change.
This looks different from, for example the German cursive which has different.

And if you write a language that uses a lot of vowels, like Finnish, then of course you get a bit sloppy with all the vowels!
etc! Swediish has very long words and you get a bit sloppy towards the end of the word sometimes, whereas English has shorter words.
Also the flow is halted if you constantly have to stop and put umlauts and accents on the words.
Surely it can't be a reliable representation of the personality!

I'd say this would only work if you apply it on people who were taught the same type of cursive. For example comparing yours and mine would be apples with pears, wouldn't it? We were taught different cursive applicable to different languages.

But perhaps with you analyzing Snowden, it's a relevant match; same language at least but possibly he was taught a different type of writing from you? He's not even writing cursive at all.

Well, I don't want to take over the thread with a discussion on handwriting - outside of what pertains to Snowden. But yeah, every country has its own methodology about teaching cursive, and there is a school of thought that kids are taught negative habits which can actually affect their behavior. For example, in the US, kids are taught to cross their lower-case t's low on the stem, which is a classic sign of low self-confidence. There are conspiracy theorists who think it's intentional. I have seen graphotherapy in action, where people learn to write letters differently and it changes their behaviors. As for loops in O's - there are actually many ways you can make them and they can all mean different things. A "lying o" has a very distinctive double inner loop, sometimes with an aggressive hook on it.

Ok, back to Snowden )))))

‘America has no functioning democracy’ – Jimmy Carter on NSA — RT USA

Former US President Jimmy Carter is *not* in lockstep with the current democratic administration about Snowden. He speaks out very strongly against government surveillance and calls it "undemocratic".

Originally Posted by Hanna

What has Snowden done against Russia's diplomacy? Would you rather he would have gone elsewhere?
I think it's an opportunity. Most of the rest of the world (short of the USA and the EU) will admire Russia if it handles this elegantly. Teaching the "land of the free" something about allowing free speech and dissenting views in the process.

Originally Posted by Hanna

And in your view, is there ANYTHING that Russia can do, that would make the USA like it?

yg3z9l.jpgWhat if I told you that the world peace and the stability of the international agreements made between the countries are far more important than bragging about who is more democratic?

By the way, Snowden was going elsewhere to begin with. If the US didn't intercept the Bolivian presifent's plane, thus making this nerd stuck here, he would end up in South America already.

Originally Posted by Deborski

‘America has no functioning democracy’ – Jimmy Carter on NSA — RT USA

Former US President Jimmy Carter is *not* in lockstep with the current democratic administration about Snowden. He speaks out very strongly against government surveillance and calls it "undemocratic".

While such mediums have normally been associated with freedom of speech and have recently become a major driving force behind emerging democratic movements, fallout from the NSA spying scandal has dented their credibility.

There's a "slight" difference though; how many ppl in the U.S. have been arrested for their political views/views on the system that they exposed through platforms like FB over the last 5-10-... years? I can't think of any, can you? While the dictatorial regimes use spying on ppl's FB & Twitter accounts to spot anything that poses a potential threat to their ruling, the American services MIGHT be collecting info that may be really helpful to spot terrorists threatening national security; that's a HUGE difference.

Originally Posted by Deborski

‘America has no functioning democracy’ – Jimmy Carter on NSA — RT USA

Former US President Jimmy Carter is *not* in lockstep with the current democratic administration about Snowden. He speaks out very strongly against government surveillance and calls it "undemocratic".

Please, who can explain these two phrases from the article:
"at the Atlantic Bridge meeting on Tuesday in Atlanta, Georgia", the Atlantic Bridge meeting = ???, sounds like a name of a organization etc.
"...he condemned the Obama administration for the use of drone attacks in his article "A Cruel and Unusual Record" published in the New York Times". "A Cruel and Unusual Record", what does "record" mean here? Is it sort of a "mention"? It sounds weird to me.

Collins English dictionary provides 18 entries for 'record' as a noun.

for example, 5) information or data on a specific subject collected methodically over a long period...

Originally Posted by Eric C.

There's a "slight" difference though; how many ppl in the U.S. have been arrested for their political views/views on the system that they exposed through platforms like FB over the last 5-10-... years? I can't think of any, can you?

Sure I can. Sex offenders are arrested all the time for posting stuff on FB or harassing kids. That doesn't bother me.

However, political protesters are ALSO followed on FB. When they are arrested, the FBI/CIA/NSA/DHS/etc doesn't say they nabbed them on FB of course. But that is how they followed the Occupy Protest and knew what all of its plans were, so that riot police could be sent to the protests (to protect the banks and businesses and arrest protesters often for no reason except to harass them). Have you been watching FOX news? That might explain why you haven't heard of this...

Originally Posted by Paul G.

Please, who can explain these two phrases from the article:
"at the Atlantic Bridge meeting on Tuesday in Atlanta, Georgia", the Atlantic Bridge meeting = ???, sounds like a name of a organization etc.

Pasha, it is a type of conference meeting in the state of Georgia.

Mid-Atlantic Bridge Conference of the American Contract Bridge League

Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

yg3z9l.jpgWhat if I told you that the world peace and the stability of the international agreements made between the countries are far more important than bragging about who is more democratic?

By the way, Snowden was going elsewhere to begin with. If the US didn't intercept the Bolivian presifent's plane, thus making this nerd stuck here, he would end up in South America already.

I'd tell you, you're a naiive ******. "world peace and the stability of the international agreements" - How are those going anyway? LOL!

Originally Posted by Eric C.

There's a "slight" difference though; how many ppl in the U.S. have been arrested for their political views/views on the system that they exposed through platforms like FB over the last 5-10-... years? I can't think of any, can you? While the dictatorial regimes use spying on ppl's FB & Twitter accounts to spot anything that poses a potential threat to their ruling, the American services MIGHT be collecting info that may be really helpful to spot terrorists threatening national security; that's a HUGE difference.

Satire is dead: Cops question German after he jokes about NSA on Facebook — Tech News and Analysis

NSA PRISM Program: Facebook Gets Busted Again, This Time For Scooping Up Phone Numbers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rking-NSA.html

Eric just can't see the big picture. The other poster, '*-Mom' has a similar affliction, 'if we already know ABC, then who cares.' The US government has it easy. When you have enough zombies who volunteer stupidity and ignorance or even indifference, you don't have to try very hard to control them.