Thread: Another Post About McDonald's!

Wait, how else can you use it?

Jasper, rhetorical, ante.
sorry i woz bored.

Rhetorical, yah.

The American way to use it is 'I could care less'.

Originally Posted by Jasper May

The American way to use it is 'I could care less'.

Does the question make it British or the word "possibly"?

No, the British form is 'I couldn't care less', which, naturally, is more logical.

Originally Posted by Jasper May

No, the British form is 'I couldn't care less', which, naturally, is more logical.

Thanks, I see now. It really seems more natural and more commonly used to me, but I thought it's pretty much international, of course I may be wrong because I didn't pay much attention whom it was coming from.

Actually the "American way" (of saying it) is not as incorrect and illogical as these guys claim. "I could care less" is not taken literally. As much as these grammar experts (there is another example of fine American sarcasm) may want you to believe, their claims that the "American version" is bad grammar are completely unfounded. Check Google if you do not believe me--by my count on the front page alone there are 3 dictionary publishers' websites explaining what I just wrote in different ways. The only sites that seem to back up what has been asserted in the other posts are by their fellow grammar experts on individual websites--and we all know that individuals whining about how much smarter they are than everybody else are much more of an authority on a given subject than the professionals in this field so I will not bother to paste the URLS to Bartleby or American Heritage Dictionary from a Google search for +"could care less"+"couldn't care less"

Here is another classic piece of American sarcasm for you guys, this time from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. "Don't you ever get tired of being right all of the time?"

It's not a question of grammar, it's a question of the logic behind the intended meaning of the phrase. I don't give a stuff what google says, the fact is 'I could care less' is just a bastardisation of 'I couldn't care less' and is only used by people (of any nationality) too stupid to think about the words coming out of their own mouth, no matter what justifications are thought up by US quasi-linguists seeking to drown out their cultural inferiority complexes.

Caveat: I've always said "I couldn't care less."

"I could care less" does make a kind of sense to me, though. It's like, "Well, I could care less...but it'd be really difficult." "I could care less...if someone bludgeoned me into unconsciousness." I don't know. Maybe I'm pulling that out of the aether.

Indeed, I had this very conversation with a group of Americans recently on an art board I frequent, and every one of them said they use the supposedly British version 'I couldn't care less', and I know I've heard Brits use it the other way, so I'm not convinced it's as simple a Brit/US difference as, say, aluminium/ aluminum.

I've only ever heard Americans try to justify saying it wrongly though.

Originally Posted by Линдзи

Caveat: I've always said "I couldn't care less."

"I could care less" does make a kind of sense to me, though. It's like, "Well, I could care less...but it'd be really difficult." "I could care less...if someone bludgeoned me into unconsciousness." I don't know. Maybe I'm pulling that out of the aether.

Lindzi, I think that explanation would make much more sense if the word stress was indeed on the word 'could', as you write above. But in my experience, it is never spoken like that.

Of course there's really no point in berating people for speaking the language the way they hear it... I actually agree that many of these transatlantic differences started life as pure and simple mistakes, but that really doesn't matter at all. It's not as if Americans are the only ones guilty of such 'heinous crimes' eh?

Originally Posted by scotcher

It's not a question of grammar, it's a question of the logic behind the intended meaning of the phrase. I don't give a stuff what google says, the fact is 'I could care less' is just a bastardisation of 'I couldn't care less' and is only used by people (of any nationality) too stupid to think about the words coming out of their own mouth, no matter what justifications are thought up by US quasi-linguists seeking to drown out their cultural inferiority complexes.

First, please tell me what qualifies one as only a "quasi-linguist" as opposed to a real linguist. Is it nonacceptance of British customs that disqualifies them for full linguist status or what? I did not know any distinction was made what country they studied in once one graduates with a doctorate in English, so this is all news to me.

By the way, my idea of a cultural inferiority complex might be a country who goes from great international dominance in spreading of its cultural values to one of complete irrelevance in a matter of a few decades, and then spends its afteryears desperately trying to retain its monopoly over the native language despite being completely overshadowed by another country. Let's go to Asia or Eastern Europe and ask the students of English why they are studying it. To read Shakespeare or to understand some shitty movie coming out of Hollywood? To work for a British firm or an American one? Now, please, tell me why anyone should care for half a second what the Brits want to dictate to the rest of the English-speaking world regarding language. That's like telling South Africans they're speaking Dutch incorrectly. Do you think they really give a shit what the Dutch say about it? Of course not. Why? Because the Dutch can't do a god damn thing to anyone anymore so nobody listens to them. You're yesterday's empire, buddy--all washed up. It'll just be a matter of time before Australia and New Zealand and the rest of Ireland hit the road, so you might as well enjoy what few semblances of authority in the world you have left. My advice: don't waste it acting snobby about linguistics. Why not go harass the native people on some little island somewhere instead? We won't say anything about it. I promise. Now go play soccer and drink another pint like a good little tourist attraction. See how well-adjusted and docile Spain and Belgium are? Why can't you be more like them? One day the US will fall apart and we'll be in the same boat as you and the rest of Europe. That's the nature of colonial powers. But until then, stop acting like the nearly 300m people who live here ought to give your arrogant two cents about our language a second thought. Stick to brogue and Welsh and Gaelic all the other crazy little dialects everybody outside the UK laughs at.

Originally Posted by scotcher

Indeed, I had this very conversation with a group of Americans recently on an art board I frequent, and every one of them said they use the supposedly British version 'I couldn't care less', and I know I've heard Brits use it the other way, so I'm not convinced it's as simple a Brit/US difference as, say, aluminium/ aluminum.

I've only ever heard Americans try to justify saying it wrongly though.

You know, I don't even say "I could care less." I think it's a dumb phrase. But it's still not "wrong" to use. As I said before, it's meant to be an ironic statement. There's no need for anyone to justify it for the same reason that nobody has to justify saying anything else that's meant to be ironic. Just because you want to personally take on the role of the English language Gestapo doesn't mean anybody has to actually "justify" anything to you. You have the gall to call the groups of English language professionals that work at publishing houses of reference books "quasi-linguists" yet somehow you yourself are this vigilante crusader out to make sure everybody on the Internet can "justify" their supposedly incorrect sentences. Can I ask what credentials give you this supreme authority? I assume it's not being a PhD in English, since obviously that only makes one a quasi-authority. So what is it then? That you live in the United Kingdom? Oh, if only we could all get into one big time machine and travel back 60 years ago when your ownership of the language still mattered to somebody!

Oh Mike, I truely and genuinely couldn't give the slightest hoot what you think of my opinion , but I should point out that you are wasting your time if you think you can recipcrocate by Brit-bashing, as I don't have a single nationalistic bone in my body. I do not claim to speak for, or be associated with, anyone but my good self, so I am immune and you may as well save yourself the trouble.

Were you to perhaps take a similar position and re-read my posts without the red, white, and blue mist obscuring your brain, you might notice that I wasn't really having a pop at Americans in the first place, but that's entirely up to you.

I didn't even read the rest of your tantrum.

Originally Posted by scotcher

Oh Mike, I truely and genuinely couldn't give the slightest hoot what you think of my opinion , but I should point out that you are wasting your time if you think you can recipcrocate by Brit-bashing, as I don't have a single nationalistic bone in my body. I do not claim to speak for, or be associated with, anyone but my good self, so I am immune and you may as well save yourself the trouble.

Were you to perhaps take a similar position and re-read my posts without the red, white, and blue mist obscuring your brain, you might notice that I wasn't really having a pop at Americans in the first place, but that's entirely up to you.

I didn't even read the rest of your tantrum.

Well, it wasn't a tantrum, but I'm sorry that you did not bother to read it. Maybe your lingual elitism would have slipped away. And I am not sure what mist you are talking about. Had you been from France and I from Haiti we would be having the exact same conversation. Would the defense of your arrogant view of the French language also be an allusion to some imaginary patriotism on my part? Or does the right to postcolonial self-determination of culture apply only to territories not formerly owned by Great Britain?

Originally Posted by Jasper May

An American who uses the expression in the original British way! The only way that makes sense! Pity you ruin it by answering your own rhetoric question.

For all intensive purposes, I am British. My family came over in 1619. My lineage is 7/8 British, 1/8 Slovak. Again, I don't know where the bloody hell I got it, but my rapier British wit is as dry as ten year old crepes!

And why exactly are whites American even if they just immigrated 2 months ago? Yet blacks are African-Americans and Asians are Chinese or Japanese. Mexicans are Mexicans. wtf?

Originally Posted by smartdude

And why exactly are whites American even if they just immigrated 2 months ago? Yet blacks are African-Americans and Asians are Chinese or Japanese. Mexicans are Mexicans. wtf?

No, Asians are Asians. Although I am technically of Chinese descent, it irks me when everyone assumes that all Asians are Chinese/Japanese. And there are plenty of Asians who would simply call themselves Americans.

As for Mexicans, I believe the proper term for someone with roots in Central/South America is Hispanic. And there are plenty of Hispanics who would simply call themselves "American", sames goes for Blacks, same goes for whatever race you would like to think of. The reason we have things like "Asian-American" or "African-American" is to be more specific about an ethnic group we're talking about when what we're saying is important depending on which ethnic group it is we're referring to. If you look at my posts, I don't mention I'm Asian unless I need to be specific about it. As for other people, I guess they feel their race is important to them.

Although I find it strange that Arabs are classified under "White" for statistics purposes.

Originally Posted by Pravit

Originally Posted by smartdude

And why exactly are whites American even if they just immigrated 2 months ago? Yet blacks are African-Americans and Asians are Chinese or Japanese. Mexicans are Mexicans. wtf?

No, Asians are Asians. Although I am technically of Chinese descent, it irks me when everyone assumes that all Asians are Chinese/Japanese. And there are plenty of Asians who would simply call themselves Americans.

As for Mexicans, I believe the proper term for someone with roots in Central/South America is Hispanic. And there are plenty of Hispanics who would simply call themselves "American", sames goes for Blacks, same goes for whatever race you would like to think of. The reason we have things like "Asian-American" or "African-American" is to be more specific about an ethnic group we're talking about when what we're saying is important depending on which ethnic group it is we're referring to. If you look at my posts, I don't mention I'm Asian unless I need to be specific about it. As for other people, I guess they feel their race is important to them.

Yup yup, dear cousin. And I have heard "European-American," as well. Of course, then some brilliant idiot will reply, "Oh, but how can you say 'European-American,' when there are so many different ethnic groups in Europe?" To which I reply by banging my head against the wall.*

Originally Posted by Pravit

Although I find it strange that Arabs are classified under "White" for statistics purposes.

Latinos/Hispanics/Chicanos used be classifed as "white" for statistics as well, interestingly enough. Yet the Irish in America were often considered a different race. Go figure.

*Because obviously there are a variety of ethnic groups on other continents, as well. In case that wasn't obvious.

Originally Posted by Pravit

And there are plenty of Hispanics who would simply call themselves "American", sames goes for Blacks, same goes for whatever race you would like to think of.

I must be living around the wrong kind of minorities.
I believe I have already posted the McDonald's based conversation...

Friend, the next time you're an ethnic minority, you can call yourself whatever you would like. What's with this idea of "wrong kind of minorities"? What business is it of yours if a Hispanic wants to call himself Mexican? Out of curiosity, if you emigrated to China and became a Chinese citizen, would you call yourself a Chinese?