Thread: Americans shocked: Soviet troops approach the countrys heart

[quote=kalinka_vinnie]

Originally Posted by Тоби":30xq3no6]
Go read up before making comments.

[url="http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10023

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10023[/url]

I found the Al Jazeera site so you wont come and tell me it is a Western article.

Did you even look at the source of this article? Did you even read it yourself? On the bottom it says: "Source: wikipedia.org" [/quote:30xq3no6]

Yes but its hosted on the Al Jazeera web site.

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by Basil77

And you don't really think that the war was about *Iraqi* oil fields, do you?

And for them also. Husein threated to sell oil for euros instead of dollars if UN sanctions were canselled. And now Iran gov is doing so(threating yet). In that case the Big Bubble called 'U.S.D' will make a loud 'CHPOCK' and will take US economy with it. That's why US wants UN sanctions against Iran so much. This is the REAL threat for America, not some ghostly nuclear bomb!

Ohhh come on. No one was about to cancel the sanctions. And even if it did happen somehow (although I can't possibly how exactly, as the US consent would be needed for such a step) there would be far easier ways to persuade Saddam to sell the oil for whatever we like.
And, most importantly, no one cares what he'd sell his oil for, or how Iran is gonna sell theirs.

You just don't understand. You could persuade Saddam to sell his oil but you didn't need his oil, you needed revenue from sales and the ability to tax whoever developed these fields. Russian oil companies developed Iraqi oil fields before the war. Now they're developed by American ones. USA lacks energy security and wants it badly in order not to depend on OPEC countries.

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by Ramil

And you don't really think that the war was about *Iraqi* oil fields, do you?

Of course not, it was about of the 'humiliation of human rights in Iraq'

Almost forgot: there supposed to be weapons of mass destruction in Iraq

Oh, one more thing - Iraq posed a direct threat to the security of the US nation.

Yeah, all of these these four explanations have one thing in common: they are false

What are the TRUE reasons of Iraqi war? Reveal that mystery.

Originally Posted by RusskiSlav

Uh, we weren't trying to outlaw it. And I was only talking about RADICAL Islam. I know not all Muslims are like Saddam.

You watch TV too much. Every radical gets cautious when comes to power. While he is at the bottom - he needs radical ideas to get people's attention. Once he is in charge of everything his main goal is to keep his power so he strives for stability. Muslims are not evil. Iran is not the new "Evil Empire". Negative views on Iran and muslims are mostly based on the Israel's prejudiced opinions and the international policy of the US.
Western world has nightmares about unified Middle East pursuing its own agenda so the main goal of the US and Israel is to keep the Middle East in turmoil and not to let them unite.

Originally Posted by Ramil

What are the TRUE reasons of Iraqi war? Reveal that mystery.

I think the main reason should be pretty clear -- you said it yourself, it's energy security. Which has very little to do with Iraqi oil per se -- no revenues from it were ever going to recoup the costs of the war.
But it has everything to do with elimination of all possible, even potential, threats to _all_ the oil shipment and production in the Persian Gulf. Saddam definitely was one such threat, as he has already shown with his invasion of Kuwait. And installing a friendly government in Iraq could do a great deal to contain any other such potential threats.
But this can not be represented as "stealing Iraqi oil" or anything like that, it just obscures the issue. This is why such talk annoys me, things that don't make any sence generally do.

All that being said, having talked to several people with some insider views, I have an impression that certain concepts like "promoting democracy" and such played a larger role (maybe not so much in the war itself as in the subsequent developments) than either you or I might have liked. Well, that's how life is, own stupidity is everyone's worst enemy, Iraq is definitely a prime example of that on all sides.

laxxy wrote:

And, most importantly, no one cares what he'd sell his oil for, or how Iran is gonna sell theirs.

No one cares you say? You may be say also no one cares if Russia, China, Taiwan and Japan(national banks of that states have in reserve more dollars, than a US year profit) ask US goverment to exchange this $ for something material instead of this toilet paper? For example gold, dimonds, oil, metal - any material things.

Originally Posted by Basil77

laxxy wrote:

And, most importantly, no one cares what he'd sell his oil for, or how Iran is gonna sell theirs.

No one cares you say? You may be say also no one cares if Russia, China, Taiwan and Japan(national banks of that states have in reserve more dollars, than a US year profit) ask US goverment to exchange this $ for something material instead of this toilet paper? For example gold, dimonds, oil, metal - any material things.

I also wonder whether you actually realize that those reserves are not invested in callable bonds (or "dollars", whatever that means Are you maybe imagining something like a huge checking account or something? ), and that the most they could do would be to decide how much new bonds to purchase.
Not to mention that the "US government" (like pretty much any other one these days) is not exactly a trader in "gold, diamonds, oil and metal" to be expected to provide them in exchange for anything.

The weirdest part is of course how can any such imaginary scenario be related in any way to what Saddam sold his oil for.

Originally Posted by Ramil

You watch TV too much

Er..the only thing I watch on TV is the World Series

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by Basil77

laxxy wrote:

And, most importantly, no one cares what he'd sell his oil for, or how Iran is gonna sell theirs.

No one cares you say? You may be say also no one cares if Russia, China, Taiwan and Japan(national banks of that states have in reserve more dollars, than a US year profit) ask US goverment to exchange this $ for something material instead of this toilet paper? For example gold, dimonds, oil, metal - any material things.

I also wonder whether you actually realize that those reserves are not invested in callable bonds (or "dollars", whatever that means Are you maybe imagining something like a huge checking account or something? ), and that the most they could do would be to decide how much new bonds to purchase.
Not to mention that the "US government" (like pretty much any other one these days) is not exactly a trader in "gold, diamonds, oil and metal" to be expected to provide them in exchange for anything.

The weirdest part is of course how can any such imaginary scenario be related in any way to what Saddam sold his oil for.

Weird you say? My very terrible English doesn't allow me to explain my point more clearly, I can only remind you the collapse of Bretton Woods system during Richard Nickson's rule. The history can repeat.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by Basil77

laxxy wrote:

And, most importantly, no one cares what he'd sell his oil for, or how Iran is gonna sell theirs.

No one cares you say? You may be say also no one cares if Russia, China, Taiwan and Japan(national banks of that states have in reserve more dollars, than a US year profit) ask US goverment to exchange this $ for something material instead of this toilet paper? For example gold, dimonds, oil, metal - any material things.

I also wonder whether you actually realize that those reserves are not invested in callable bonds (or "dollars", whatever that means Are you maybe imagining something like a huge checking account or something? ), and that the most they could do would be to decide how much new bonds to purchase.
Not to mention that the "US government" (like pretty much any other one these days) is not exactly a trader in "gold, diamonds, oil and metal" to be expected to provide them in exchange for anything.

The weirdest part is of course how can any such imaginary scenario be related in any way to what Saddam sold his oil for.

Weird you say? My very terrible English doesn't allow me to explain my point more clearly,

Your English is fine imo but you can use Russian

I can only remind you the collapse of Bretton Woods system during Richard Nickson's rule. The history can repeat.

do you think it's possible to break a vodka bottle twice?

Originally Posted by Basil77

I can only remind you the collapse of Bretton Woods system during Richard <font color=red>Nixon's</font> rule.