Thread: An alternative view of the USA & some other countries

Originally Posted by Hanna

@ Misha: Sounds good! Have you got any pictures?

Very few of them are "postable"! For some of the things I've said on this forum, I don't think it's a good idea to post photos of myself (or other "gang members"). This one will give you an idea of what it was like (none of the guys you see there are members of our gang...):

IMG_0281.jpg

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

...I don't think it's a good idea to post photos of myself (or other "gang members").

I agree.

You just don't get it. Che Guevara shirt wearing college freshmen. Cuba "Enemies" are 99%, friends are 1%. Grow up... I'll toss you out to Calle Ocho (8th Avenue), Miami and see if you last more than a day. Castro is an idiot, so is Chavez. If they are so damn smart, why are their citizens coming to USA? South Americans going to Russia? The few that show up are treated how well?

I love my J-1 visa Russian, Belorussian, Ukrainian and other Eastern European workers. They complain when they arrive, then cry when they have to go home.. You have a failed economy. Sorry, you got a fail.

Oh, man! Looks like Soviet brainwashing was baby talk in comparison to American one. At least I am sure that it was unable to put human being into such a condition.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Oh, man! Looks like Soviet brainwashing was baby talk in comparison to American one. At least I am sure that it was unable to put human being into such a condition.

Judging by your comment it was not.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Judging by your comment it was not.

Um?

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Oh, man! Looks like Soviet brainwashing was baby talk in comparison to American one.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by capecoddah

You have a failed economy. Sorry, you got a fail.

By your definitions, but you are comparing apples with pears here.
They started of from a feudal state, much later than the USA, and their aim was to create something fair for everyone.
They didn't get their wealth exploiting the third world etc.
Plus if the USA is so great, what about the terrible murder rates, the black ghettos, white trash....

Originally Posted by Hanna

They started of from a feudal state, much later than the USA

The feudal Russia was much wealthier than the USA at the time.

Originally Posted by Hanna

and their aim was to create something fair for everyone.

No comments as they would be perceived as a pure trolling.

Originally Posted by Hanna

They didn't get their wealth exploiting the third world etc.

Exploiting, exploiting, exploiting ... Do you really think the biggest issue of the third world is being exploited by the US?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Plus if the USA is so great, what about the terrible murder rates, the black ghettos, white trash....

Ah, so let's compare apples with apples now. Do you feel like comparing the murder/poverty rates globally?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The Soviet brainwashing was a bit more skillful that's all.

Skillful? Oh, no! It was too primitive and straightforward and was really effective only along with extensive terror, which was over at 1953.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The truth is multi-faced, so all of us are brainwashed more or less.

The brainwashing is a technology to make a person to be completely unable to perform the critical analysis of certain ideas or statements or just words and words combinations.

When a brainwashed person hears something that is presumably questions an idea-focus, (s)he suffers an uncontrollable negative emotional reaction that makes a person temporarily unable to perform intellectual activity.

This is just disgusting and has nothing to do with faces of truth.

I believe that everything is possible without brainwashing effects. Even faith. Brainwashing phenomenon is an evil, which can be avoided completely.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Skillful? Oh, no! It was too primitive and straightforward and was really effective only along with extensive terror, which was over at 1953.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, I don't think our grandparents were all stupid and cowards. I think the opposite would better reflect the reality. People were idealistic, progressive, strove to overthrow worn and torn stigmas etc. I think the communistic ideology is smart and cunning, not the primitive and straightforward.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

When a brainwashed person hears something

like the word "USA"

Originally Posted by it-ogo

(s)he suffers an uncontrollable negative emotional reaction

exactly. Even if you watch the reaction of Hanna some of the forum members here, you'd notice that. And that being said of the [relatively] open and intellectual members. Now, can you notice what kind of reaction the word "exploitation" causes in our Soviet minds?

Originally Posted by it-ogo

This is just disgusting and has nothing to do with faces of truth.

Not really. Do you strongly associate "black" with evil and "white" with good? Most people do. But, the KKK members, for example, wore white robes. Were they good or evil? Black or white? It's all relative, as usual.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I believe that everything is possible without brainwashing effects. Even faith. Brainwashing phenomenon is an evil, which can be avoided completely.

I don't think the brainwashing is evil. It's just a part of the culture.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Oh, man! Looks like Soviet brainwashing was baby talk in comparison to American one.

The Soviet brainwashing was a bit more skillful that's all. The truth is multi-faced, so all of us are brainwashed more or less.

Why avoid it while it's so great a tool? As soon as everyone seems to understand that every ruler in the world is an unscrupulous, disgusting moral bankrupt, what would you expect from them? Justice? Honor? Dedication? Don't be absurd.

In case you forgot, the USA and the Americas were settled by Europeans. There are places with blue-eye blond Swedes. I know this because I've worked with them. They hate brown people.
Murder rates in USA? pretty high among the immigrants. The Brazilians, Colombians, Venezuelans and Mexicans that come here bring their gangs and drugs. Check the murder rates there.

People cry in anguish when they are deported. People cry in joy when they become citizens. I flew to Chicago to see Belorussian Natalia become USA Citizen Natalia. I'm very happy for her, but sad for her friends in Belarus. Somehow I can't get a visa to Belarus. Russia and Ukraine are happy to let me in to see my "kids".

I've lost track of most of my "kids" because there are so many. I hear from a few for 2-3 years then they vanish. I get some e-mail though: (paraphrased)

"I hated you, I hated the Motel, I hated the USA. I am now a Manager for a hotel in Russia. You were right. I miss you, the Motel and USA. Please come here and speak bad French with the Canadians. Correct my English. Speak bad Russian. Learn German. Are you hiring for next season?"

People actually wonder why I love the J-1 Visa kids.

Well what do you want me to say then... ? Stuff my nationality, my language, my culture and my values.. After all, the USA knows what's best for everyone all over the world, particularly when it comes to economics... It has the right to have military bases anywhere it wants... to invade any country in the world, at any time, for any reasons, real or fake....

I am well aware that the USSR did some terrible things, particularly to its own citizens. But that was many decades ago and the country doesn't even exist anymore. It's old news.
The USA on the other hand is still around though and more aggressive than ever.

AS to who has the most effective brainwasing:
Well, which one of these countries basically dismantled itself, and which country is still convinced that it's the best country on earth? USA 1 - USSR 0!

This is an awesome song about a brainwashed American, who started as a good person and a Christian but believed in all the BS he's heard on TV.. and kills some innocent people in a war, and becomes indifferent to the damage he causes.. Old song. This is the best rock group in Scandinavia for three decades but they usually don't sing in English.

I am not brainwashed!

Top 10 great things about the USA:
Amazing nature
Positive and outgoing people
Rock music
Cool art
Gospel music
Great sci-fi movies
Entrepreneurship of Silicon Valley
Cultural melting pot
Homesteading
Lots of great literature.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I am not brainwashed!
Top 10 great things about the USA:
Amazing nature
[...]

Ha-ha! That reminds me of an old saying from the Soviet Union times:

- What's great about the USA?
- The Great Lakes.

It's very natural you think those are the thoughts of your own. The good propaganda differs from the bad one specifically in that point.

Here's a poster from the olde times that goes along the lines of your perception of the USA:



So, my sincere congrats to you - you've been bamboozled!! brainwashed like everybody else.

USA is not such a bad country as many think. When I was younger (say very young) I almost idealized it. It it really free... to a degree. The difference is that freedom is understood differently in different places on Earth. Freedom in USA first and foremost means 'free enterprise'. That's what USA is about. It's ideal for making money (if you're not a complete incompetent at everything). Say, you're a doctor and you don't know anything about making money. All you know is that you know how to heal injuries -- no problem. There will always be a guy who would 'sell' your talent to others. Or imagine you know how to make delicious cookies (well, I am simplifying things a little, but I'm doing it deliberately) -- you'll have a loan in no time at a very low interest rate for opening your business. People do not care where low interests come from they're only interested in them staying low. They do not care about politics and they care even less about what's hapenning in the rest of the world. Many Americans live through their lives without ever travelling abroad (many don't even bother to visit a neighboring state). Well, they're free and probably happy.
It's when you start to mess with politics, it's when you start to think about the rest of the world when the ugliness of the 'regime' starts to emerge.
Nearly all other countries hate USA for being the most prosperous country probably because their inhabitants secretly envy their well-being and of course get frustrated about how unfair things are at the moment.
What? USA treats other countries unfair -- everybody outside US knows that but them, in US just don't care. Am I envious? Oh, probably I am. But no, I'm too 'brainwashed' to go live there.

They are not the most prosperous country though!
Several countries in Europe have a much higher GDP per capita than the USA has.
And there are terrible problems with poverty and segregation in the USA.

Interesting discussion about culture and "brainwashing." One of the best things Hanna left out of her list is that we live under the rule of law. Of course, it gets bent from time to time, but generally it is the standard. I am afraid that some people here view the US through the lens of their own society. Not every government is as bad as some extrapolate from Russia's government.

Here's a list of how corruption is seen to permeate various countries. Russia is very low on the list, but when you say things like "all governments are corrupt" you are basing your thinking on your own experience without realizing that the pattern does not necessarily map to other countries. I am not saying that the US is an angel, just that it may not be as bad as some think.

Corruption Rating Barely Changed | Business | The Moscow Times

Originally Posted by chaika

Here's a list of how corruption is seen to permeate various countries. Russia is very low on the list, but when you say things like "all governments are corrupt" you are basing your thinking on your own experience without realizing that the pattern does not necessarily map to other countries. I am not saying that the US is an angel, just that it may not be as bad as some think.

Have they stopped taking bribes in the Senate and the Congress? They're all right, aren't they?