Разные вопросы по глаголам (by tiudavidharris

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

so is it correct to say <<я иду вниз по лестнице.>> ?

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It is. Note, though, that it means "I am walking downstairs", "I am currently at the stairs, going down". It makes sense in some contexts, it doesn't add up in some others. For example, imagine you are in a large railway station where you are supposed to meet your friend. The friend doesn't seem to be there, so you make a call and ask "Where are you?". Then the answer "Ты в главном зале? Я иду вниз по лестнице" is logical and quite natural (i.e. "look at the main staircase. I'm right there, walking down").

However, usually it isn't important and we don't even remember walking downstairs to exit the building/ going upstair to the office. You mostly just use "спускаться"/"подниматься" without mentioning the stairs/elevators, let alone "иду вверх"/"иду вниз".

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

'подниматься лестнитца' climb up a staircase or ladder.

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It is incorrect. In Russian, it's "подниматься по лестнице".

I noticed you often forget to decline nouns. And you need "по" when you move along some surface: идти по дороге, плыть по воде, лететь по воздуху, ходить по крышам, подниматься по лестнице etc. etc.

do you use prefixes with лазить, ползать, таскать?

Thank You

Yes, we do:

лазить - залазить (to somewhere), полазить (for a short time), вылазить (from somewhere), влазить (inside somewhere), перелазить (over something) etc.
ползать - заползать, поползать, выползать, вползать, переползать, уползать, ...
таскать - затаскивать, вытаскивать, перетаскивать, утаскивать (but actually there's also a suffix, if without a suffix I can only think of a few examples like потаскать, истаскать, перетаскать).

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Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

перелазить (over something)

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Or is it? I can only imagine this word used to describy climbing and exploring some not-so-user-friendly area thoroughly. Like "перелазить все стройки района". Climbing over something is "перелезать"

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потаскать, истаскать, перетаскать

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Also оттаскать (за волосы), натаскать (на экзамен по русскому) and, probably, other rarely used or colloquial combinations.

If you add a suffix, will it still be a verb of motion?
i know prefixes added to verbs of motion gives them patterned meanings.
do suffixes do change the meaning of verbs of motion as well?
ive never heard of them.
are the reflexive endings 'ся' and 'сь' what you mean?

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

If you add a suffix, will it still be a verb of motion?
i know prefixes added to verbs of motion gives them patterned meanings.
do suffixes do change the meaning of verbs of motion as well?
ive never heard of them.
are the reflexive endings 'ся' and 'сь' what you mean?

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Suffixes also change meaning, or, in this case (тащить --> затащить --> затаскивать) grammatical category, such as aspect (perfect/imperfect). -ся (сь) is a suffix for reflective verbs (mind, though, reflective meaning is only one of their functions). That's, actually, why suffixes are different from endings. In Russian grammar "endings" are only those building blocks that only change the word's form while still keep its lexical meaning (such as singular/plural, 1st person verb form - 3rd person verb form). By contrast, suffixes and prefixes are part of the stem: they are used to alter the meaning of the word (so in English a Russian teacher would call "-ment" in "government" a suffix, but "-ed" in past form "sustained" an ending).

Strictly speaking, you should only be aware of a limited amount of verbs of motion, such as идти/ходить, ехать/ездить, лететь/летать, плыть/плавать, ползти/ползать, нести/носить, вести/возить and a few others. There are many other verbs that mean some motion, but only these few have a distinction between "indefinite" (multidirectional) and "specific" (one-way trip) action. All other Russian verbs only have perfective/imperfective aspectual distinction.

May I ask why so many questions in so little time frame?

First of all, thank you for the help.
I am trying to build a basic understanding of the Russian Language.
Lately, I have been trying to construct sentences with verbs of motion and ran into difficulties.
I am actually almost done studying verbs of motion and their prefixed forms. I have studied most of the common verbs of motion already.
This is just a short phase of many questions I think.
Honestly, I independently study the Russian language daily. I want to move to Russia someday and the language is one of the challenges i face.

i know when i say 'у меня пища' it means ' i have food'
and when i say 'я имею пища' does it mean ' i have food' or 'i am having food'.

what if i said 'у меня было пища', this means 'i had food.'
and if i said 'я имел пища', it also means i had food.

i know when i use the preposition 'y', it can mean i have or had an object..
does 'иметь' refer to having the activity?

i am not sure
how is the word 'иметь' versus the preposition 'y' used?

First of all, I would correct some errors you made (see in red below):

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

i know when i say 'у меня пища' it means ' i have food'
and when i say 'я имею пищу' does it mean ' i have food' or 'i am having food'.
"иметь" is a transitive verb (the same as in English), so you need the accusative.

what if i said 'у меня была пища', this means 'i had food.'
"пища" is feminine.

and if i said 'я имел пищу', it also means i had food.
The same as above.

i know when i use the preposition 'y', it can mean i have or had an object..
does 'иметь' refer to having the activity?

i am not sure
how is the word 'иметь' versus the preposition 'y' used?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

and when i say 'я имею пищу' does it mean ' i have food' or 'i am having food'.

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No, it does not mean "I am having food". The verb "to have" has different meanings in English: one of them is "to possess" or "to own". A different meaning is "to eat" or "to drink" (as in "to have lunch", "to have some tea" etc. – it is not about possession, it is about consumption).

In Russian, the verb "иметь" means "to possess", but never "to consume". If you want to say "I’m having food", it would be "я ем" or "я кушаю" (I’m eating), usually you do not need to add "пища" as it is obvious. But there is also a more official expression for "I'm having food": "я принимаю пищу" (lit.: I'm receiving food). But never "имею".

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

what if i said 'у меня было пища', this means 'i had food.'
and if i said 'я имел пища', it also means i had food.

i know when i use the preposition 'y', it can mean i have or had an object..
does 'иметь' refer to having the activity?

i am not sure
how is the word 'иметь' versus the preposition 'y' used?

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Technically,
Я имею пищу = У меня есть пища = I have food.
Я имел пищу = У меня была пища = I had food.
They mean just the same.

However, the options with "иметь" sound odd and hardly ever used in the colloquial speech (despite being understandable).

The construction "у + noun in genitive (possessor) + есть + noun in nominative (what is being possessed)" is preferrable and widely used.

The verb "иметь" has limited use in modern Russian. Most often it is used when the subject of possession is something abstract:
Эта олимпиада имеет шанс стать лучшей в истории игр. – These olympic games have a chance to become the best in the history of the games. "шанс" (chance) is an abstract thing.
It can be used in technical or scientific language:
Квадрат имеет четыре стороны. – A square has four sides.
Note: in all the examples above the construction with "у" is still possible, but "иметь" makes them sound more formal.

There are some set expressions with "иметь" and abstract nouns: "иметь значение" - to have importance, to be important, to matter (Размер имеет значение. - The size matters.); "иметь смысл" - to make sense (note: we say "to have sense", not "to make sense") etc. (Это не имеет смысла. - This makes no sense.).

However, if you need an imperative construction, "иметь" (it's imperative form is "имей (те)") is the only option you have:
Не имей сто рублей, а имей сто друзей (Do not have 100 roubles, but have 100 friends) - a Russian saying.

Be careful not to use "иметь" when applying to people (like you say "I have a wife" in English). In Russian slang, it can be used as a euphemism for "to have sex with someone"!

Thank you

The exercise on "у меня есть ..."

Кино - Место для шага вперед (guitar cover) - YouTube

I am unsure about the translation of this sentence.
I am trying to say 'i am watching television.' so i literally have to say 'i am looking into television in Russian.
'я смотрю в телевизор.'

i cannot just say 'i am watching television.'
'я смотрю телевизор.'

ive learned that if i want to say 'i am looking at you', I must say
я смотрю на тебя

there is no russian translation for 'I am watching you' because 'смотреть' is used differently from the english verb 'look' or watch' which are both different verbs in english.
so it is incorrect to say
'я смотрю тебя'
even if the words seem to translate as 'i'm watching you'

please correct me.

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

I am unsure about the translation of this sentence.
I am trying to say 'i am watching television.' so i literally have to say 'i am looking into television in Russian.
'я смотрю в телевизор.'
i cannot just say 'i am watching television.'
'я смотрю телевизор.'

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No-no! It is the other way around!

"Я смотрю в телевизор" is "I am looking inside the TV set"! You can use it only when:
1) You are repairing your TV set: you have opened the back cover and you are looking trying to figure out what is wrong inside;
2) You are trying to watch a movie, looking into the TV screen, but do not understand what the movie is about and what is going on on the screen (this usage is common in colloquial speech), but I would not recommend to you using it since there are more nuances. It has some negative connotation BTW.

The only way to say "I am watching TV" in Russian is "Я смотрю телевизор" (with no preposition).

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

ive learned that if i want to say 'i am looking at you', I must say
я смотрю на тебя

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It is correct!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

there is no russian translation for 'I am watching you' because 'смотреть' is used differently from the english verb 'look' or watch' which are both different verbs in english.
so it is incorrect to say
'я смотрю тебя'
even if the words seem to translate as 'i'm watching you'
please correct me.

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I think you're right. But could you clarify:
How are those sentences different in English? (I am looking at you and I am watching you). I am afraid I do not understand the difference well.

'сажать' means 'to seat' while 'сидеть' means 'to sit'.

what is the difference?

It is very easy!

"сидеть" is intransitive (no direct object). It means "to be in the sitting position": Я сижу на стуле. Он сидит за столом. Мы сидим и разговариваем.
"сажать" is transitive (requires a direct object). It means "to let someone to the sitting position": Я сажаю ребёнка на стул.

"сажать" can also mean "to plant something" (by inserting seeds into ground): Я сажаю деревья. Они сажают кукурузу.
"сажать" also means "to put someone into the prison": Мы должны сажать преступников в тюрьму.

BTW, "to be in the prison" is "сидеть": Преступники сидят в тюрьме.

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Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

...I think you're right. But could you clarify:
How are those sentences different in English? (I am looking at you and I am watching you). I am afraid I do not understand the difference well.

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Я смотрю на тебя и
Я слежу/наблюдаю за тобой (например, по той причине, что я тебе не доверяю). - I am watching you - don't do it anymore!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dIiV4AKzOM

Смотреть is a cunning verb.
All the following phrases correct:
Смотрю в книгу (и вижу фигу)
Смотрю журнал
Смотрю расписание поездов
Смотрю в окно
Смотрю в бинокль/в микроскоп
Смотрю на экран монитора
Смотрю в монитор
Смотрю в зеркало
Смотрю на пол/потолок
Смотрю на тебя
Смотрю в тарелку
Смотрю в зубы коню (дарёному)

Can anyone see any system? I can't :unknown:

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Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

Преступники сидят в тюрьме.

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Когда их туда сажают :&quot;&quot;:

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Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Смотреть is a cunning verb.
All the following phrases correct:
Смотрю в книгу (и вижу фигу)
Смотрю журнал
Смотрю расписание поездов
Смотрю в окно
Смотрю в бинокль/в микроскоп
Смотрю на экран монитора
Смотрю в монитор
Смотрю в зеркало
Смотрю на пол/потолок
Смотрю на тебя
Смотрю в тарелку
Смотрю в зубы коню (дарёному)

Can anyone see any system? I can't :unknown:

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Let's try.

Смотреть + Accusative (without prep.)
a) the same as рассматривать, осматривать, оценивать - to inspect, to examine.
b) to watch the performance, the action (представление, шоу, парад, казнь, word телевизор here is used instead of телепередачи - it is called metonymy)

Смотреть + на + Accusative
to look at smth., to stare at the object without any specifically denoted direction of interest.

Смотреть + в + Accusative
to look through smth. or inside smth. at smth else (в бинокль на Кеннеди, в зеркало на себя, в телевизор на кинескоп, в книгу на фигу)

here is one exclusion: should be "смотреть зубы коню", I think it is again metonymy: "зубы" is used instead of "рот".

Преступник должен сидеть, а следователь - сажать.

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Преступник должен сидеть, а следователь - сажать.

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Иногда - наоборот. Следак заслуживает глубокой посадки, а преступник - оказывается и не преступник вовсе.

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Originally Posted by Eugene-p

Иногда - наоборот. Следак заслуживает глубокой посадки, а преступник - оказывается и не преступник вовсе.

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При нормальной жизни - так, а не наоборот.

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Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

...BTW, "to be in the prison" is "сидеть": Преступники сидят в тюрьме.

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Остап Бендер says this in movie Twelve Chairs, to wife of Никифор Ляпис-Трубецкой, 'Either you stand or he sits' pretending he is some official, to get the chair.

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Originally Posted by it-ogo

here is one exclusion: should be "смотреть зубы коню", I think it is again metonymy: "зубы" is used instead of "рот".

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I think not. It is from "Дарёному коню в зубы не смотрят" (You don't look at the teeth of a horse you got as a gift), isn't it? The meaning behind the phrase is that one can estimate the age of the horse examining its teeth. So it is a) no use looking at them if the horse is for free anyway b) kinda rude.
Though the example is not representative for the very basic reason: govenment changes with time. That's where language development is so much like real life.

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Originally Posted by Shady_arc

I think not. It is from "Дарёному коню в зубы не смотрят" (You don't look at the teeth of a horse you got as a gift), isn't it? The meaning behind the phrase is that one can estimate the age of the horse examining its teeth. So it is a) no use looking at them if the horse is for free anyway b) kinda rude.
Though the example is not representative for the very basic reason: govenment changes with time. That's where language development is so much like real life.

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That's what I mean. Examine teeth = смотреть зубы (like a dentist). But to examine teeth one should look into a mouth, смотреть в рот. Here we have a metonymy when we spread the meaning of рот to зубы to express both ideas simultaneously.

Hello, i am having trouble with the following sentences
and i am wondering if i have the correct idea of using transitive verbs with там or туда
я сажаю дерево там = i am planting a tree there. is this correct?
я сажаю дерево туда = i am planting a tree that way.
я кладу мясо там = i am placing meat there. is this correct?
я кладу мясо туда = i am placing meat that way.

i am also confused with using accusative or prepositional case with the transitive verbs.
я сажаю дерево на землю = i am planting a tree toward the ground. is this correct?
я сажаю дерево на земле = i am planting a tree on the ground.
я кладу мясо на кастрюлю = i am placing meat toward the pan. is this correct?
я кладу мясо на кастрюле = i am placing meat on pan.

i believe i have something wrong because it sounds odd that transitive verbs use or answer the question of 'где' while using accusative case rather than prepositional case.
hopefully i had the right idea previously. please point out corrections, Thanks!

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

Hello, i am having trouble with the following sentences
and i am wondering if i have the correct idea of using transitive verbs with там or туда
я сажаю дерево там = i am planting a tree there. is this correct?
я сажаю дерево туда = i am planting a tree that way.
я кладу мясо там = i am placing meat there. is this correct?
я кладу мясо туда = i am placing meat that way.

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I would say, in the examples above the both options are possible. But there are some subtle differences.

Using "там" with the verbs like "класть, ставить, сажать etc." conveys a more generic idea of location: it specifies "where you perform the action", "where the action takes place":
Я сажаю дерево в парке. (or) Я там сажаю дерево. - It means you are in a park now (or you are "there") and being located in the specified place, you perform planting a tree.
Using "туда" is more specific, it specifies a direction, i.e. to where you put something.
E.g., you cannot say "Я сажаю дерево в парк". But you can say: "Я сажаю дерево в землю" (into the ground).

"Я кладу мясо туда" specifies a place to where you put the meat.
"Я кладу мясо там" I think is also valid, but it is more generic (where you are used to put the meat everytime, not only for this specific occasion), so "там" denotes a static location, not a direction. And it may mean a more generic location: a room, a storage etc. where you KEEP meat.
If you specifically mean a bag or a can, then you cannot say "Я кладу мясо там". Only "туда" would be valid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

i am also confused with using accusative or prepositional case with the transitive verbs.

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Exactly the same way as you use "там" and "туда"

Accusative means direction (corresponds to "туда"). Prepostitional means location (corresponds to "там").

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

я сажаю дерево на землю = i am planting a tree toward the ground. is this correct?

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I would prefer "Я сажаю дерево в землю" because you insert it to inside the ground, not just onto the surface.

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

я сажаю дерево на земле = i am planting a tree on the ground.

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It can be used when you want to specify that "You are planting a tree when you are (yourself) on the ground" or "on the earth".

Compare: Он сажает дерево на Марсе. - He is performing this being on the Mars :)

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

я кладу мясо на кастрюлю = i am placing meat toward the pan. is this correct?

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It should be "я кладу мясо в кастрюлю" - I am putting meat to inside the saucepan. Note that "кастрюля" is not any kind of pan. It is usually deep and intended for boiling (not for frying!): http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%...8E%D0%BB%D1%8F. If you mean a pan for frying or roasting, it is "сковорода": http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%...BE%D0%B4%D0%B0, which is shallow.

That is why, you say "в кастрюлю" (to inside, since it is deep) but "на сковороду" (onto the surface), depending on how you are going to cook the meat. The same is with static location:
"мясо сейчас в кастрюле" but "мясо сейчас на сковороде".

If you say "я кладу мясо на кастрюлю" it would be strange, as if the saucepan were covered, and you were putting meat onto the cover.

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

я кладу мясо на кастрюле = i am placing meat on pan.

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It sounds extremely odd. There are two possible options I can imagine:
1) you are on the covered soucepan yourself :) and you perform the action when being there :)
2) or you do it regularly, so as if it were a normal place where you keep meat (on the cover of the saucepan).

Normally, we would never use this phrase.

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

i believe i have something wrong because it sounds odd that transitive verbs use or answer the question of 'где' while using accusative case rather than prepositional case.

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No, "где" uses prepositional, not accusative. It is used for STATIC LOCATIONS.
But "куда" uses accusative, and it is used for DIRECTIONS.

там, здесь relates to the static position of the subject while туда, сюда describes the destination of motion or transfer.

я сажаю дерево там - I am there and I am planting the tree.
я сажаю дерево туда - I am planting the tree in such a way that it will be there after I will finish.

The same is with your other examples.

я сажаю дерево в землю = i am planting a tree to the ground. "сажать на землю" means "to land (an airplane)"
я сажаю дерево на земле = i am on the ground and I am planting a tree.
я кладу мясо на кастрюлю = i am placing meat to the top of the pan.
я кладу мясо в кастрюлю = i am placing meat to the pan.
я кладу мясо на кастрюле = I am on the top of the pan (sitting?) and I am placing meat.
я кладу мясо в кастрюле = I am inside the pan (OMG!) and I am placing meat.

In addition,
I think "класть" is sometimes used instead of "хранить", "держать" (= to keep, to store) in colloquial speech. In this case it can be used with "там" (i.e. static location):
Я кладу свои книги здесь = Я храню свои книги здесь (I am keeping my books here). It means you use this place regularly, not just put something there once.

I am not sure if this usage is accepted in the literary language. But people do not always speak the literary language. At least I can hear it in colloquial speech.

thanks again боб уайтман and it-ogo!

Hello again, could i get help to distinguish the difference between these sentences and also thinking of some situations for usage of these sentences?
я сел на стул = i sat on chair (the action of sitting)
я посидел на стул = i sat on chair./i was seated on chair. (the position of sitting)

these seem to have similar usages. for example, if i was narrating what i did in a room with a chair
perhaps my translations in english as wrong aswell which means the following translations are wrong aswell

я садился на стул = i was sitting on chair (the action of sitting)
я сидел на стул = i was sitting on chair (the position of sitting)

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by tiudavidharris

Hello again, could i get help to distinguish the difference between these sentences and also thinking of some situations for usage of these sentences?
я сел на стул = i sat on chair (the action of sitting)
я посидел на стул = i sat on chair./i was seated on chair. (the position of sitting)

these seem to have similar usages. for example, if i was narrating what i did in a room with a chair
perhaps my translations in english as wrong aswell which means the following translations are wrong aswell

я садился на стул = i was sitting on chair (the action of sitting)
я сидел на стул = i was sitting on chair (the position of sitting)

Thanks!

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1. "я посидел на стул", "я сидел на стул" - one cannot say like that, it is ungrammatical.

2. садиться (imperfective) / сесть (perfective) mean "to sit down": it is the transition from the standing position to the sitting position:

"Я садился на стул" is "I was sitting down onto the chair".
"Я сел на стул" is "I have sat down onto the chair".

3. сидеть (imperfective) means "to sit": it is being in the sitting position (a state, not a transition).

"Я сидел на стуле" - I was sitting on the chair. Note: "на стуле" (Prepositional case), since it is not direction, it is static location.

4. посидеть (perfective) is "to sit for a limited time". The same as "сидеть", but it emphasizes the action was limited in its time duration:

"Я посидел на стуле" - I sat on the chair for some short time.

I constructed the following sentences and have provided translation and usages for each, although i am not sure if they are correct. kindly please correct me if i am wrong:

я смотрю на телевизор (i am looking at a television that is turned off with no show running.)
я смотрю на телевизоры (i am looking at different television models, not the shows running on them. For example, if i was at an electronic appliance store.)
я смотрю телевизоры (i am looking at many televisions that are turned on. for example, if i was a security guard watching different televisions providing video of different areas monitored by many cameras.)
я смотрю на машины (i am looking at different cars in an automobile shop)
я смотрю на машину (i am looking at a car)
я смотрю машину (i am watching a car, this seems incorrect)
я смотрию та машину (i am watching that car, a specific car)

спасибо!

я смотрю на телевизор (i am looking at a television that is turned off with no show running.)
Correct.

я смотрю на телевизоры (i am looking at different television models, not the shows running on them. For example, if i was at an electronic appliance store.)
Correct.

я смотрю телевизоры (i am looking at many televisions that are turned on. for example, if i was a security guard watching different televisions providing video of different areas monitored by many cameras.)
As for a security guard, I would say, “Я смотрю на экраны (мониторы).” We do not call телевизор those appliances. Смотреть телевизор means to be a spectator of a TV show or a TV programme.

я смотрю на машины (i am looking at different cars in an automobile shop)
Correct. Or Я рассматриваю машины (It means to look at more thoroughly, paying attention to details).

я смотрю на машину (i am looking at a car)
Correct. Or the same as above “Я рассматриваю машину”

я смотрю машину (i am watching a car, this seems incorrect)
It’s impossible. Maybe Я слежу за той машиной in the meaning I am watching it as it moves along a road.

я смотрию та машину (i am watching that car, a specific car)
It’s impossible. The same as the previous case.

The number of the noun does not affect the verb anyway.

why are добра and успеха in the genitive case in the following sentences? should they be in inanimate accusative casE?
я всем желала добра
всем пожелали успеха

спасибо

It would probably be best to redirect you to http://masterrussian.net/f15/мы-выпили-чаю-20452/
A similar question has just been discussed there. Note posts 4, 6, 7 and 25.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helenej

It would probably be best to redirect you to http://masterrussian.net/f15/мы-выпили-чаю-20452/
A similar question has just been discussed there. Note posts 4, 6, 7 and 25.

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Там так напутано, что сам чёрт ногу сломит. Пусть лучше идёт прямо в эти посты.
Спасибо, Леночка!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helenej

It would probably be best to redirect you to http://masterrussian.net/f15/мы-выпили-чаю-20452/
A similar question has just been discussed there. Note posts 4, 6, 7 and 25.

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I have to apologize. I was wrong here.
The correct answer is given by Medved’s post №28 in
http://masterrussian.net/f15/разные-...61/index2.html

Though желать may also need the *accusative when the object is defined concretely.
Я желаю именно эту книгу.

P.S. Corrected due to Medved's remark. :)