Thread: Transitive/Intransitive - to learn/study

I had a discussion with a Russian friend about the verbs учиться and учить, and he explained that the first was intransitive and the second transitive. For учиться he gave the examples Учиться в школе and Учиться петь. But if it's intransitive, how come you still learn something, i.e. "learn how to sing". Isn't that transitive all of a sudden?

Can someone explain all that stuff with the different verbs for "to study" etc? I don't really get the difference.

Originally Posted by tricoteuse

I had a discussion with a Russian friend about the verbs учиться and учить, and he explained that the first was intransitive and the second transitive. For учиться he gave the examples Учиться в школе and Учиться петь. But if it's intransitive, how come you still learn something, i.e. "learn how to sing". Isn't that transitive all of a sudden?

Can someone explain all that stuff with the different verbs for "to study" etc? I don't really get the difference.

Transitive verb requires a substantive in accusative case. In "Учиться петь" there is not a substantive.

"Учиться" = to be taught (by somebody or by oneself)
Я хочу учиться музыке (not an accusative case!). Он учится читать. Они учатся в школе.

"Учить" = 1) to study something 2) to teach somebody.
1) Я учу английский язык. Она учит биологию.
2) Папа учит меня кататься на велосипеде. Педагог учит детей.

aren't you curious about, обучaть, изучить, научить, научиться, выучить ?

Originally Posted by Оля

Transitive verb requires a substantive in accusative case. In "Учиться петь" there is not a substantive.

Exaaactly what I needed to know, now I understand completely. Thank you

Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo

aren't you curious about, обучaть, изучить, научить, научиться, выучить ?

Terribly! Do tell me

учить + Accusative = to learn
Я учу английский язык = I am learning English

учить + Dative = to teach
Я учу русскому языку = I am teaching Russian

изучать + accusative = to study
Я изучаю русский язык = I am studying Russian

It is possible to study something and not learn it (like studying Russian ).

Originally Posted by tricoteuse

I had a discussion with a Russian friend about the verbs учиться and учить, and he explained that the first was intransitive and the second transitive. For учиться he gave the examples Учиться в школе and Учиться петь. But if it's intransitive, how come you still learn something, i.e. "learn how to sing". Isn't that transitive all of a sudden?

Can someone explain all that stuff with the different verbs for "to study" etc? I don't really get the difference.

the suffixes "-ся" and "-сь" usually give the meaning "to oneself". And verbs with these suffixes are intransitive, as they do not take any direct object

And for example

я интересуюсь животными,

I interest myself with animals. This is not transitive?

животные интересуют меня is?

Originally Posted by paasikivi

And for example

я интересуюсь животными,

I interest myself with animals. This is not transitive?

животные интересуют меня is?

Yes and yes

Originally Posted by paasikivi

And for example

я интересуюсь животными,

I interest myself with animals. This is not transitive?

животные интересуют меня is?

"Животными" is i.c. of "животные" (pl). It's not an accusative. "Интересуюсь" (интересоваться) is not transitive. Verbs with -ся are not transitive.

Originally Posted by Оля

Я хочу учиться музыке (not an accusative case!).

Dative?

она учится биологии?

Originally Posted by paasikivi

Originally Posted by Оля

Я хочу учиться музыке (not an accusative case!).

Dative?

она учится биологии?

В принципе да. Грамматически это правильно.
Но только учиться биологии нельзя, лучше учить_ биологию (acc.).

Учиться музыке (dat.) значит, что человек приобретает умение играть на каком-то инструменте, нажимать на клавиши, петь и т.д., то есть он будет уметь что-то ДЕЛАТЬ (руками, голосом).
А учить биологию (acc.) значит - просто ЗНАТЬ много всего про биологию.

Например, еще можно сказать "учиться ремеслу", "учиться вождению (автомобиля)".

What's the difference?

Я встретил ангел / Я встретился с ангелом?

Originally Posted by paasikivi

What's the difference?

Я встретил ангел / Я встретился с ангелом?

There is no difference for me.

Originally Posted by paasikivi

What's the difference?
Я встретил ангела / Я встретился с ангелом?

There is a difference, though it's very subtle and often can be ignored. Roughly speaking "встретился" may imply that you wasn't the only one who initiated this event (for example you and angel arranged that meating together).

Originally Posted by paasikivi

What's the difference?

Я встретил ангел / Я встретился с ангелом?

And what's the difference in English between

"I met John" and "I met with John"?

Originally Posted by paasikivi

And for example

я интересуюсь животными,

I interest myself with animals. This is not transitive?

животные интересуют меня is?

Transitive means it takes a direct object. The direct object in Russian is always in the accusative case (or may be genitive for animtate nouns).

я интересуюсь животными. Nothing is actually being done to the animals; they are merely the instrument with which the "Я" interests his or her self.

I hit the dog.
Obviously the dog is the direct object.

Originally Posted by paasikivi

What's the difference?

Я встретил ангела / Я встретился с ангелом?

'Я встретил ангела' can mean either 'I met the angel (at the airport, station, etc)' or 'I met an/the angel (accidentally, by chance)'.

'Я встретился с ангелом' can mean either 'I met an/the angel (accidentally, by chance)' or 'I met with the angel (a prearranged meeting)'

Originally Posted by TATY

я интересуюсь животными. Nothing is actually being done to the animals; they are merely the instrument with which the "Я" interests his or her self.
I hit the dog.
Obviously the dog is the direct object.

Я видел собаки.

Here also nothing is done to the dog, it is just something that I see.

Originally Posted by paasikivi

Originally Posted by TATY

я интересуюсь животными. Nothing is actually being done to the animals; they are merely the instrument with which the "Я" interests his or her self.
I hit the dog.
Obviously the dog is the direct object.

Я видел собаки.

Here also nothing is done to the dog, it is just something that I see.

Я видел собаки. doesn't make sense

Я видел собаку I saw a dog
Я видел собак I saw dogs