Thread: Struggling for 2 years with cases!

Hi there,

Could you please give me tips on how to use cases and simple ways of remembering their uses? I know their is a wealth of info online and in books but no matter how much I research- I continue to struggle!!

Originally Posted by Niamh

Could you please give me tips on how to use cases and simple ways of remembering their uses?

It's a very unusuall and original question. Ok, take some tips:
стол - the table - nominative The table is in a room.
стола - of the table - genetive - The price of the table is low. Genetive in Russian is also used with "no" kinda There is no table here (no existence of the table). Also "a table-leg" in russian is "a leg of a table". Some prepositions need genetive too.
столу - to the table - dativ - I'm going to the table. Some prepositions also need dative case.
стол - (look at) the table - acussative I moved the table. Looks similar to nominative, ah? Imagine that a table is "he" - I moved him. He is chaneged into him. So this is acussative. Some prepositions need acussative case too.
столом - with/by the table - instrumental I've knocked him with a table. Instrumental also is used with some prepositions.
о/на/в столе - about/on/in the table - prepositional (used with some prepositions) You are in the table. We are talking about the table. My computer is on a table.

Well, I don't know whether it works with non-native Russian speakers but every noun case is defined by so called ruling question and the prepositions which can precisely define the case.

Nominative - answers the questions Who, What (What is it, who is it) (Кто?, что?)

Genetive - answers the question what is missing (кого?, чего?), and the indicating prepositions are: без, до, для, из, из-за, из-под, мимо, кроме, вместе, сверх, насчет, среди, у... (if you see any of these prepositions - the case is genetive)

Dative - answers the question to what?, to whom? (кому?, чему?), and the prepositions are к, по, благодаря, вопреки, вслед, навстречу, наперекор, согласно, соответственно, also constructions на пути к, по направлению к and others.

Accusative - answers the question whom (кого? что?) (whom do I see, what do I see). The prepositions are про, через, сквозь, в ответ на construction, etc.

Instrumental - well, I In russian, the indicating questions are Кем? Чем? (by/with what?, by/with whom?) and the indicating prepositions and constructions are над, перед (пред), согласно с (кем?, чем?), рядом с (кем?, чем?), вместе с (кем?, чем?), в связи с (кем?, чем?).

Prepositional - (О ком?, о чём?) (about what, about whom) prepositional is called so because it can be used with prepositions only. The single indicative preposition I could think of is о (about).

I think it would be educational to read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_morphology
Maybe using examples from Old English you could understand the case system better.

And of course the following could help you with Russian:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_grammar (a very brief but rather good overview).

Originally Posted by Ramil

Prepositional (and locative)- (О ком?, о чём?, где?) (about what, about whom, where)

В чём? Где? В Караганде.
О чём? О лесе. Где? В лесу?

Hello,
I am on vacation now so instead of doing the Pimsleur corrections I should be doing I'm combining the examples above into one document. But I need help (lots of it!). Here's what is done for genitive case:

g.c. - genitive case - родительный падеж. Answers the question what is missing (кого?, чего?), and the indicating prepositions are: без, до, для, из, из-за, из-под, мимо, кроме, вместе, сверх, насчет, среди, у... (if you see any of these prepositions - the case is genitive). Genitive is used after numerals.
Masculine gender - мужской род:
стол - четыре стола (g.c. singular) – four tables, пять столов (g.c. plural) – five tables
музей - четыре музея (g.c. singular), пять музеев
портфель - четыре портфеля (g.c. singular), пять портфелей
Feminine gender - женский род:
газета - четыре газеты (g.c. singular) – пять газет
неделя - четыре недели (g.c. singular) – пять недель
Neuter - средний род:
окно - четыре окна (g.c. singular) – пять окон
здание - четыре здания (g.c. singular) – пять зданий

Genitive in Russian is also used with lack of possession:
Здесь нет стола (g.c.). - There is no table here (no existence of the table).


Please help me correct my many mistakes!

Could someone please translate the following:


Also "a table-leg" in Russian is (Please translate into Russian: "a leg of a table").

These are for the dative case:
стол - (Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the table." My guess is «Я иду столу»).
(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the tables." My guess is «Я иду столам»).
музей - (Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museum." My guess is «Я иду музею»).
(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museums." My guess is «Я иду музеям»).


I do not have the experience/knowledge to do this by myself. I do think with your help that a document can be put together to help me with the cases.


Thank you,

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

стол - (Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the table." My guess is «Я иду к столу»).
(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the tables." My guess is «Я иду к столам»).
музей - (Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museum." My guess is «Я иду в музей»).
(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museums." My guess is «Я иду в музеи»).

Originally Posted by fortheether

Also "a table-leg" in Russian is (Please translate into Russian: "a leg of a table").

Ножка (чего?) стола.

Originally Posted by Wowik

Originally Posted by fortheether

Also "a table-leg" in Russian is (Please translate into Russian: "a leg of a table").

Ножка (чего?) стула.

стола!

Originally Posted by Оля

стола!

Тьфу-ты! Я даже ловил себя на том, что хочу написать стула, и мысленно поправился, но написал-таки стула! Сообщение поправил.

Please supply Russian sentences with the following:

The word "музей in dative singular case.
The word "музей in dative plural case.
The word "газета" in dative singular case.
The word "газета" in dative plural case.
The word "аудитория" in dative singular case.
The word "аудитория" in dative plural case.
The word "окно" in dative singular case.
The word "окно" in dative plural case.
The word "здание" in dative singular case.
The word "здание" in dative plural case.

Thank you,

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

Please supply Russian sentences with the following:

The word "музей in dative singular case. Он подарил музею свою коллекцию картин.
The word "музей in dative plural case. Музеям тяжело выживать в условиях капиталистического рынка
The word "газета" in dative singular case. Газете требуется сотрудник.
The word "газета" in dative plural case. Газетам всегда требуются сотрудники.
The word "аудитория" in dative singular case. Этой аудитории нужен ремонт.
The word "аудитория" in dative plural case. Этим аудиториям ремонт не требуется.
The word "окно" in dative singular case. Подойди, пожалуйста, к этому окну.
The word "окно" in dative plural case. Все прильнули к окнам.
The word "здание" in dative singular case. Идите к зданию вокзала.
The word "здание" in dative plural case. К историческим зданиям нужно относиться бережно.

Thank you,

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the tables." My guess is «Я иду к столам»).
музей - (Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museum." My guess is «Я иду к музею»).
(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museums." My guess is «Я иду к музеям»).

to = к here.
But remember we say к музею when we mean "towards the museum"(dat.) and say в музей (acc) - "into the museum" when we mean to visit a museum.


EDIT: By the way, в музей - into the museum is accusative, but в музее - in the museum is prepositional.

Thank you Оля!

Please check my translations:

музей - Он подарил музею свою коллекцию картин. - He gave his picture collection to the museum.
Музеям тяжело выживать в условиях капиталистического рынка – It's hard for museums to survive in the (conditions) of a capitalist marketplace.

Feminine gender - женский род:
газета - Газете требуется сотрудник. - A newspaper (demands (of, from), needs) a contributor.
Газетам всегда требуются сотрудники. - Newspapers always need contributors.
аудитория - Этой аудитории нужен ремонт. - This lecture hall needs repairs.
Этим аудиториям ремонт не требуется. - The repairs for these lecture halls are not necessary.

Neuter - средний род:
окно - Подойди, пожалуйста, к этому окну. - Please approach this window.
Все прильнули к окнам. - All was stuck to the windows.
здание - Идите к зданию вокзала. - Go towards the building of the station.
К историческим зданиям нужно относиться бережно. - Historic buildings need to treated with care.

Thank you,

Scott

Originally Posted by JJ

Originally Posted by fortheether

(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the tables." My guess is «Я иду к столам»).
музей - (Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museum." My guess is «Я иду к музею»).
(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museums." My guess is «Я иду к музеям»).

to = к here.
But remember we say к музею when we mean "towards the museum"(dat.) and say в музей (acc) - "into the museum" when we mean to visit a museum.


By the way, в музей - into the museum is dative, but в музее - in the museum is prepositional.

JJ,
Thank you. This is why I need to see examples of all the cases.

Scott

Originally Posted by JJ

By the way, в музей - into the museum is dative

Dative?
No, it's not a dative... It's accusative.

Dative is "музею".

Originally Posted by fortheether

Thank you, Оля!

Please check my translations

Мне кажется, ты всё перевёл правильно, но я не уверена в своем английском.

Originally Posted by fortheether

Thank you Оля!

Please check my translations:

музей - Он подарил музею свою коллекцию картин. - He gave his picture collection to the museum.
Музеям тяжело выживать в условиях капиталистического рынка – It's hard for museums to survive in the (conditions) of a capitalist marketplace.

Feminine gender - женский род:
газета - Газете требуется сотрудник. - A newspaper (demands (of, from), needs) a contributor.
Газетам всегда требуются сотрудники. - Newspapers always need contributors.
аудитория - Этой аудитории нужен ремонт. - This lecture hall needs repairs.
Этим аудиториям ремонт не требуется. - The repairs for these lecture halls are not necessary.

Neuter - средний род:
окно - Подойди, пожалуйста, к этому окну. - Please approach this window.
Все прильнули к окнам. - All was stuck to the windows.
здание - Идите к зданию вокзала. - Go towards the building of the station.
К историческим зданиям нужно относиться бережно. - Historic buildings need to treated with care.

Thank you,

Scott

музей - Он подарил музею свою коллекцию картин. - He presented his picture (paintings) collection to the museum.
Музеям тяжело выживать в условиях капиталистического рынка – It's hard for museums to survive in the capitalist market conditions.

Feminine gender - женский род:
газета - Газете требуется сотрудник. - The newspaper needs an employee.
Газетам всегда требуются сотрудники. - Newspapers always need contributors (well, maybe contributors will be more correct).
аудитория - Этой аудитории нужен ремонт. - This lecture hall needs repairs. (rennovations)
Этим аудиториям ремонт не требуется. - The repairs for these lecture halls are not necessary. (These lecture halls don't need any rennovations).

Neuter - средний род:
окно - Подойди, пожалуйста, к этому окну. - Please approach this window. (Please, come to this window).
Все прильнули к окнам. - All was stuck to the windows. (Everybody stuck to windows) (well, I think that they're just windows, not the windows, though I could be wrong). The context is missing but from what I gather from this sentence it could mean, for example all windows in a building, or even all windows in all surrounding houses, or even something like "Everybody rushed to windows to see a comet in the sky).
здание - Идите к зданию вокзала. - Go towards the building of the station.
К историческим зданиям нужно относиться бережно. - Historic buildings need to be treated with care.

Thanks for the breakdown of things. But somethings that we've done in class confuse me further. Like {forgive the lack of cyrillic characters} why can it be "v Moskve" and "v Moskvu"?

Originally Posted by Niamh

Thanks for the breakdown of things. But somethings that we've done in class confuse me further. Like {forgive the lack of cyrillic characters} why can it be "v Moskve" and "v Moskvu"?

в Москве - where? (She lives in Moskow)
в Москву - to where? (She's going to Moskow)


By the way

Budu v Rossii, budet otlichno =))

budet = it will be
budit = it's waking (smbd or smth) up

Originally Posted by Оля

в Москве - where? (She lives in Mosсow)
в Москву - to where? (She's going to Mosсow)

:P