Thread: Prepositional phrases

I am confused about a particular point of syntax. To translate an English phrase as "instead of reading," do you say vmeste chitat', vmeste togo, kak chitat', or something completely different? Thanks.

Originally Posted by challenger

I am confused about a particular point of syntax. To translate an English phrase as "instead of reading," do you say vmeste chitat', vmeste togo, kak chitat', or something completely different? Thanks.

We say: "вместо того, чтобы читать" or simply: "вместо чтения".

Ohhh, shtobi! Thanks

Hmm...is that the rule for all prepositions with the infinitive?

На нашей гостинице гость может делать то, что хочет, исключая то, чтобы (с исключением того, чтобы) в бассейне плавать голый.

Is that right? Would I ever do it differently?

Originally Posted by challenger

В нашей гостинице гость может делать то, что хочет, исключая плавание в бассейне в голом виде.

OR:
...за исключением того, чтобы плавать в бассейне голым.

"исключая то, чтобы" - так сказать нельзя.

So whether I use a gerund like плавание or a phrase like то, чтобы плавать depends on the preposition? And are those the only two ways to go about it?

If you don't mind, this raises another question. You put "плавать голым." But Pushkin wrote: "она мёртвая упала." This startled me, because I thought the instrumental case had to be used. Is Pushkin's usage simply archaic?

Originally Posted by challenger

If you don't mind, this raises another question. You put "плавать голым." But Pushkin wrote: "она мёртвая упала."

Он плавает голый - you can say so.
But: Нельзя плавать голым / Нельзя плавать голыми.

You can use:
a verb not in the infinitive + adjective in the i.c. or in n.c.
a verb in the infinitive + adjective in the i.c. (only)

Originally Posted by challenger

So whether I use a gerund like плавание

Hm, I don't think "плавание" is a gerund. For me it's a verbal substantive.

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by challenger

So whether I use a gerund like плавание

Hm, I don't think "плавание" is a gerund. For me it's a verbal substantive.

Only adjectives can be "substantive," and gerunds are verbal adjectives. But as for the other, how do I know when it's alright to use то, чтобы + inf and when it isn't?

Originally Posted by challenger

Only adjectives can be "substantive," and gerunds are verbal adjectives.

В русском языке есть словосочетание "отглагольное существительное", т.е. "verbal substantive".

Originally Posted by challenger

But as for the other, how do I know when it's alright to use то, чтобы + inf and when it isn't?

I think it depends on the context. Show me some examples.

P.S.
"исключая плавание в голом виде" = "за исключением того, чтобы плавать в голом виде."
It has the same sense.