Thread: Perfective and imperfective verbs

Correction in reds, personal flavor in green

Eugene and I have spent a month-long holiday on the island. Jackson died on the second day of our stay there. Then we arrived to the airport, took a bus and came back home. I got the mail out from the mailbox. We sat down at the table and I was looking through the newspaper during lunch/breakfast/dinner. Then I exclaimed, "Can you imagine? Michael jackson died." (I dunno why, it never sounded natural to me to add "has" before died.)

Originally Posted by Valda

Correction in reds, personal flavor in green

Eugene and I have spent a month-long holiday on the island. Jackson died on the second day of our stay there. Then we arrived to the airport, took a bus and came back home. I got the mail out from the mailbox. We sat down at the table and I was looking through the newspaper during lunch/breakfast/dinner. Then I exclaimed, "Can you imagine? Michael jackson died." (I dunno why, it never sounded natural to me to add "has" before died.)

And if it were "Can you imagine? Michael jackson married"? Could it be "has married"?

For "married" most natural way is "got married". If it's "has married" you'd normally say to who... as in "Michael Jackson has married his mom", for instance.

Originally Posted by Valda

For "married" most natural way is "got married". If it's "has married" you'd normally say to who... as in "Michael Jackson has married his mom", for instance.

Lol. Ok, let's say he bought a new house. Can it be "Michael Jackson has bought a new house"?

Yes You can, the "has" just adds a time component. We're looking at the difference between past participle form (I forgot the name of the tense..maybe past perfect) and simple past. In simple past ("he bought a house") time is irrelevant. He bought a house, completed action. With the past participle form ("He has bought a house") it indicates a time component... so you can leave the specific time unsaid, or add "he has bought a house recently/finally"... it can also be indicative of the duration of the time of the buy "he has bought the house after plenty of haggling over the price"...

But, to be more accurate, Michael Jackson didn't "buy the house", he "bought the farm" :P

Eugene and me have spent a month’s holiday on that island. (Eugene, don't panic, I only said “let’s imagine”). Jackson died on the second day of our stay there. Then we arrive at the airport, take a bus and come home. I take the mail out the mail-box. We sit down at the table and I look through the newspapers as we eat. Then I exclaim, “Can you imagine? Michael Jackson has died!”

Well, it's not really incorrect to say that, but what I'd say is that it's not realistic. If it were on the news, and he had just died a few hours ago, they would come on and say, "Entertainer Michael Jackson has died." But if two native speakers were sitting over coffee and reading the newspaper, they would say, "Wow, Michael Jackson died!" It would be quick, and to the point. So, generally we don't always talk as we would write. It's not incorrect the first way, but not very realistic in conversation...

Originally Posted by kgcole

Well, it's not really incorrect to say that, but what I'd say is that it's not realistic. If it were on the news, and he had just died a few hours ago, they would come on and say, "Entertainer Michael Jackson has died." But if two native speakers were sitting over coffee and reading the newspaper, they would say, "Wow, Michael Jackson died!" It would be quick, and to the point. So, generally we don't always talk as we would write. It's not incorrect the first way, but not very realistic in conversation...

Yes...that's a good explanation.

I just wanted to note I wrote "past perfect" instead of "SIMPLE PAST"...sorry to whoever got confused. Call it a "typo"... Edited it

I'm amazed more and more at how much nuance in meaning most any language has, depending on how one is brought up. I guess we do it and don't even think about it. It's really interesting to consider, though, don't you think?

Thank you, guys. I have a lot to think about.

не вникайте сильно, Helen... грамматика иногда просто странно.

I cannot. Otherwise I feel myself helpless and uncertain.

Originally Posted by Helenej

I cannot. Otherwise I feel myself helpless and uncertain.

Oh, you'll get it sooner or later Helene...lol....you're well on your way already

I'd prefer sooner. Thanks for encouraging, anyway.