Thread: instrumental case

exactly!

In the end you just have to remember them. Consider it a revenge for the feminine la table.

Originally Posted by adoc

Consider it a revenge for the feminine la table.

I don’t think Possopo has a problem with case endings generally, I think he means: “Why in the name of God’s Fish do they use the instrumental in these sentences?!”

Did I get that right, Possopo?

Frankly speaking, I’m terrible at Russian – but if you’ll accept a baby-talk-explanation…..
And it’s possible I’m mixing up things and getting things wrong too, so please, Clever People of the Board, correct me!!!!


But I’ll give it a try
The instrumental case is used:

1) for the obvious: to denote something that is used as an instrument to do something.
f.ex. она написала ручкой – she wrote with a pen.
Easy.


2) to denote a quality or characteristic of a person or a thing – this is in combination with verbs that refer to characteristics, like to be, to become, etc…..

BUT.

A - If it is a characteristic or quality that is perpetual, or permanent, you use the nominative.
f.ex. Камень был тяжелый – The rock was heavy. Because rocks are heavy, and always will be.

B -If it is an acquired or not permanentquality or characteristic, the instrumental is used:
In your example: оставить окно открытым – the window was left open. “Being open” is not an intrinsic characteristic of a window. But at that moment, that specific window’s characteristic was “open” - because someone happened to leave it open.


And the same goes for работать: the job a person does, is one of his main characteristics, so to speak; and you’re not born into a job, it’s a skill you acquire:
Ты работаешь официантом? – Are you a waiter? – doesn’t mean “were you born as a waiter, did you pop out into the world wearing a bow tie?” ( ), but “did you acquire the skills that enable you to earn your living as a waiter now?”


………… sort of thing. Does that give you an idea?

Good analysis. I liked that, it makes sense.

As Kalinka, my famous name-sister pointed out, there are alot of other cases to, where you would use the instrumental case.

3) Time of planned completion of action
поеду летом. - I will go in the summer
вечером позвоню тебе. - I will call you in the evening

4) How you do the action (not as in 1) with an instrument)
идти пешком - walk by foot
махать руками - to wave with your hands

plus many more!

BabaYaga wrote:

Did I get that right, Possopo?

yup, absolutely!

and your explanation is quite clear and makes sense. nice, thank you!

Thanks for that, Baba. I was wondering about "на русском".

Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey

Thanks for that, Baba. I was wondering about "на русском".

Here Русский is an adjective, and the perpositional case of the adjective is русском (male singular). Nothing to do with instrumental, I am afraid!

Heh, thanks for correcting me there, then . I'm a little out of practice.

Certain verbs govern the instrumental case:

Стать + instr. - to become smth. That's just the way it is
Считать что\кого + instr, - to consider something, someone something

E.g. Они считают себя бедными (They consider themselves to be poor).

A lot of reflixive constructions take the instrumental:

Я занимаюсь спортом

Remember: 1. the nominative case can only be used for the SUBJECT of the sentence.
2. The accusative must be the DIRECT OBJECT.

Foreigners tend to be tempted to say "Я занимаюсь спорт". But since Спорт is either the nominative or accusative it can't be right, since, it is neither the subject of the sentence, or a direct object (Reflexive verbs are intransitive).

Also if the word БЫТЬ is visible you tend to use the instrumental:

Я - студент
Я был студентом
Я буду студентом

Originally Posted by possopo

there are two cases i have a real problem with, the first being genitive when used in the negative form, the second being instrumental used when, ahem, well, i don't really know how to explain it.

why are you saying:
ostavit' okno otkrytym and not simply otkryto.
on stal ingenerom instead of ingener.

an explanation of this strange phenomenon would be highly appreciated

The instrumental case is used in these sentences because they denote a change of state (from closed to open, and from [something] to Engineer).

As with every change of state that a occurs, the instrumental case is used. For example: Ya xochu byt vrachom - i want to be(come) a doctor.

Hope that helped.

(P.S. Correct me on this one, guys)