Thread: Finding the soft sign hard

I hate that soft sign. Why have a letter that doesn't have a sound? Well, no sound that my ears can detect, anyway. It plays havoc with my spelling.

But now I think I'm starting to guess where it will crop up. Patterns are emerging.

It will never be:
At the beginning of a word
After the prefix (though the hard sign might be)

It will always be at the end of:
An infinitive ending with -т
A reflexive ending with -с
A second person verb ending with -ш

If it wants to, it can appear:
At the end of a masc/fem noun (particularly ones ending in -т -л -н -с or -р)
In the middle of a word, between two consonants (look for -т -л -н -с or -р followed by a nice hard consonant like к).

Am I on the right lines?

It will never be:
At the beginning of a word right
After the prefix (though the hard sign might be) I think, right

It will always be at the end of:
An infinitive ending with -т right
A reflexive ending with -с right
A second person verb ending with -ш right, BUT in this case you can't hear it: "шь" is pronounced like "ш".

If it wants to, it can appear:
At the end of a masc/fem noun (particularly ones ending in -т -л -н -с or -р) At the end of a masc. it never appears (there are only few exclusion: тюль, туннель, шампунь)
In the middle of a word, between two consonants (look for -т -л -н -с or -р followed by a nice hard consonant like к).

Am I on the right lines?

And it never can appear after г, к, х.

NOUNS that end with -итель or -атель.

Originally German words that end with -ль (e.g. вексель) ))

Imperatives that don't end with a vowel (e.g. трать)

Originally Posted by rainbowworrier

I hate that soft sign. Why have a letter that doesn't have a sound?

To indicate palatalized consonant if there is no vowel after it.

Well, no sound that my ears can detect, anyway. It plays havoc with my spelling.

It's better than 'ough' that correspond to 9 different sounds.

Why have a letter that doesn't have a sound?

To indicate palatalized consonant if there is no vowel after it.

Oh yes, I realise it's doing something - I just can't hear it. I'm not used to telling those sounds apart. Just like a lot of non-native English speakers can't hear the difference between "ship" and "sheep".

I had a boyfriend from Liverpool who couldn't hear the difference between "fairy" and "furry", because in the North of England they are pronounced the same way ("foory").[/quote]

Оля And it never can appear after г, к, х.

В иностранных именах/названиях бывает (foreign names):


Гья, Кья, Кьял, Хья

[quote:2c0brxeo]Оля And it never can appear after г, к, х.

В иностранных именах/названиях бывает (foreign names):


Гья, Кья, Кьял, Хья[/quote:2c0brxeo]
Да, знаю, бывает. Ещё "кьянти", например.
Но таких случаев очень мало, - например, я приведенные тобой названия ни разу не слышала.

Originally Posted by rainbowworrier

It will always be at the end of:
A reflexive ending with -с

Not completely. -сь is written if the preceding letter is a vowel, whereas -ся is written if the preceding letter is a consonant AND is written at the end of all reflexive participles, regardless of whether the preceding letter is a consonant or a vowel. Thus:

Боюсь
Пишется
Поднимающимся
Поднимающегося

Боюся, что это тоже не всегда так

А в компанию к тюлю, туннелю и шампуню ещё "гуся" надо.

Originally Posted by Wowik

Боюся, что это тоже не всегда так

Верно, но насколько я понимаю, так можно только в разговоре или в поэзии, чтобы стих красиво получался. Например, "Один и без цели по свету ношуся давно я" (Лер.--Листок) выполняет амфибрахий, тогда как "ношусь" превратило бы все в дрянь. Правда?

Я в детстве бывала на юге, так там многие мои сверстники на полном серьёзе говорили "я боюся". Меня это так смешило...

Originally Posted by Оля

Я в детстве бывала на юге, так там многие мои сверстники на полном серьёзе говорили "я боюся". Меня это так смешило...

В Крыму? Они, наверное, "на полном серьёзе" былм украинками.

Originally Posted by Lampada

В Крыму? Они, наверное, "на полном серьёзе" былм украинками.

Нет, в Сочи. И они на полном серьёзе были русскими.

Да и я неоднократно слышал у нас... Давно.